D200 review

[Rhys]

Did you check with the D200 how it worked with AIS lenses? It's supposed to work with them, maintaining AP, SP, Program and Manual modes.

[Jeff Keller]

Did you check with the D200 how it worked with AIS lenses? It's supposed to work with them, maintaining AP, SP, Program and Manual modes.

Well, I didn't try any AIS lenses if that's what you mean. The only info I have about that is what's in the camera manual :confused:

[Rhys]

Well, I didn't try any AIS lenses if that's what you mean. The only info I have about that is what's in the camera manual :confused:

Well, I have a ton of Nikon AIS lenses, which won't work on the D70 because the D70 won't even meter with them.

I was interested in whether I could put the AIS lenses straight onto the D200 and get immediate metering and SP/AP/Program modes without any fiddling about.

[erichlund]

Did you check with the D200 how it worked with AIS lenses? It's supposed to work with them, maintaining AP, SP, Program and Manual modes.
Rhys,
I have the AI-S 55mm f2.8 micro. AI-S lenses only work in aperture priority and manual. They don't work in program or shutter priority. If you give it a moment's thought, I'm sure you will reason out why, but I will say it anyway. Since the aperture can only be set manually, modes that want to automatically set the aperture will not work.

Focus metering (the green dot) will work as long as the lens has a max aperture of 5.6 or larger. 3D Matrix metering is not available, but Color Matrix, Center Weighted and Spot metering are all available.

In order for the metering to work, you have to set some information in a menu item, but once set, it stays in the camera, so you don't have to set it again if you only use the lens once in a while.

BTW: I did all the setup a while back, so I'm referencing the manual to write this. However, I don't need to reference the manual to use the lens, only to set one up.

[Rhys]

Rhys,
I have the AI-S 55mm f2.8 micro. AI-S lenses only work in aperture priority and manual. They don't work in program or shutter priority. If you give it a moment's thought, I'm sure you will reason out why, but I will say it anyway. Since the aperture can only be set manually, modes that want to automatically set the aperture will not work.

Focus metering (the green dot) will work as long as the lens has a max aperture of 5.6 or larger. 3D Matrix metering is not available, but Color Matrix, Center Weighted and Spot metering are all available.

In order for the metering to work, you have to set some information in a menu item, but once set, it stays in the camera, so you don't have to set it again if you only use the lens once in a while.

BTW: I did all the setup a while back, so I'm referencing the manual to write this. However, I don't need to reference the manual to use the lens, only to set one up.

What happens if you use multiple AIS lenses?

[erichlund]

What happens if you use multiple AIS lenses?
Well, to date, I only have one, but from the manual and discussions with others in DPReview, it's not a problem. It's not a single memory block that can only hold one set of lens data. You can put the information in for all your lenses and then just use them.

When you select the menu item, it gives you three ranges to choose from for focal lengths, 6-45, 50-180, and 200-4000. Once you choose a range, you then get a selection of specific focal lengths in that range. Choose yours, or if the lens doesn't exactly match any, then choose the next higher. Once you've done that, it puts the aperture on the highest in that category. You then choose the largest aperture for your lens. Hopefully, it is greater than 5.6, because that's the magic number that allows you to use metering. If you have really slow glass, it still won't meter.

A zoom lens is a bit more complicated. While you don't need to have an entry for each focal length, you need one for each widest aperture. So, lets say you have the 35-200mm f3.5-4.5. From 35-50 it's a 3.5, from 55-100 it's a 4.0 and up to 200 it's a 4.5. I'm not sure how many you would have to enter, but I would think at least 50mm f 3.5, 100mm f4, and 200mm f4.5. There may be a benefit to entering more points, but I don't have an AI-S zoom, so I cannot give you any practical information. You may want to try asking this on DPReview, as there are a number of people who have done it there.

[Ray Schnoor]

What happens if you use multiple AIS lenses?
From the owner's manual, it looks as if you have to change the values if you change lenses.

It does look, though, that this information is not necessary to use the lenses. By inputting the information (lens focal length and maximum aperture), you will be able to use color matrix metering, the aperture used and focal length of the lens will be displayed in the viewfinder and exif data, and the flash output will be adjusted for changes in aperture.

If you do not input the information, the lenses will still work, but you will only be able to use center weighted or spot metering and the # of stops from the maximum aperture will be listed instead of the actual aperture. Additionally, accuracy of the optional flash units SB-600/800 improves if the camera can send this information to the flash unit.

Ray.

[Rhys]

From the owner's manual, it looks as if you have to change the values if you change lenses.

It does look, though, that this information is not necessary to use the lenses. By inputting the information (lens focal length and maximum aperture), you will be able to use color matrix metering, the aperture used and focal length of the lens will be displayed in the viewfinder and exif data, and the flash output will be adjusted for changes in aperture.

If you do not input the information, the lenses will still work, but you will only be able to use center weighted or spot metering and the # of stops from the maximum aperture will be listed instead of the actual aperture. Additionally, accuracy of the optional flash units SB-600/800 improves if the camera can send this information to the flash unit.

Ray.


Since the old Nikon cameras could handle all this adequately, this makes the digital version seem a bit half-assed.

[erichlund]

I did a search on this on DPReview. It seems it's even more limited than I thought. I wouldn't even consider it with zooms. Just not worth it. As far as storing info for more than one lens, you can store one at a time, in each of the 4 shooting banks (A, B, C and D).

With a zoom, when you changed the zoom far enough to get a different max aperture, you would have to change the setting. You might have to change each time you went to a different focal length.

So basically, it's useful for up to 4 primes. After that, you have to go into the menu when you change lenses.

Sorry to say it's not more elegant than that.

[Rhys]

I did a search on this on DPReview. It seems it's even more limited than I thought. I wouldn't even consider it with zooms. Just not worth it. As far as storing info for more than one lens, you can store one at a time, in each of the 4 shooting banks (A, B, C and D).

With a zoom, when you changed the zoom far enough to get a different max aperture, you would have to change the setting. You might have to change each time you went to a different focal length.

So basically, it's useful for up to 4 primes. After that, you have to go into the menu when you change lenses.

Sorry to say it's not more elegant than that.

Since my Nikon outfit consists of 28, 35, 50, 85, 135, 200, 300 primes, it seems a very half-assed approach. Good job Nikon - you've ensured I'll stay with Canon!

[Ray Schnoor]

Since the old Nikon cameras could handle all this adequately, this makes the digital version seem a bit half-assed.
That is not quite true.

If you don't input the requested information when using AI-S lenses, the D200 only offers aperture priority or manual exposure modes with center weighted or spot metering, same as the FM3A(center weighted metering olny), F100, F5 and F6 cameras. The FM10, of course, is manual exposure only.

It seems that the only difference is the option of inputting data which will give you the aperture value displayed in control panel and viewfinder(something the other cameras did not offer), information in your exif data(something the other cameras did not offer), give you i-TTL with your SB-600/800 flash units(something the other cameras either do not offer at all or at least with AI-S lenses), and improve the precision of C/W and spot metering(which does not mean that it wasn't accurate to begin with).

Ray.

[Ray Schnoor]

Since my Nikon outfit consists of 28, 35, 50, 85, 135, 200, 300 primes, it seems a very half-assed approach. Good job Nikon - you've ensured I'll stay with Canon!
It seems that the best way to see if this approach works is to try your lenses with the D200(without inputting any data) and see how well the camera works in aperture priority mode, unless of course, you are not really interested in seeing if it will in fact work.

I may bring some in myself and try them on a D200.

Ray.

[Rhys]

It seems that the best way to see if this approach works is to try your lenses with the D200(without inputting any data) and see how well the camera works in aperture priority mode, unless of course, you are not really interested in seeing if it will in fact work.

I may bring some in myself and try them on a D200.

Ray.

I would be very interested to hear what your experience is. If it's positive then when I visit Britain next, I might bring my Nikon kit back with me, buy D200 and sell my Canon gear.

[cdifoto]

I thought you hated menus and options Rhys. Why go with a Nikon if you have to select your lens in a menu? Seems quite backwards for a guy who basically wants a digital AE-1.

[Rhys]

I thought you hated menus and options Rhys. Why go with a Nikon if you have to select your lens in a menu? Seems quite backwards for a guy who basically wants a digital AE-1.

If it'll work without that then I'm interested. I don't even know if it has an aperture viewing window like most Nikon SLRs had.

[erichlund]

The only thing you have to go into the menu for is to add the specific lens data.

Rhys, one thing you can do is goto the Nikon site for the D200 and download the manual. It's a non-printable copy (unless you have a serial number), but you can read the manual on your computer screen. Here's the absolutely grotesque link. (http://support.nikontech.com/cgi-bin/nikonusa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=13796&p_created=1135005015&p_sid=zJLmPP1i&p_lva=61&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9MiZwX3Byb2RzPTE5LDIxNyZwX2NhdHM9MTg3JnB fcHY9Mi4yMTcmcF9jdj0xLjE4NyZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc 3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX25sJnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=&p_topview=1)

For instance, the bit about being able to use center weighted and spot metering without entering any info is in the manual (pg 174) and I just missed it. So you don't have to enter data unless you want to use matrix metering. See, I learned something today. :o Thanks Ray! :)

[coldrain]

What is an aperture viewing window, Rhys? And what is the fascination with your manual focus lenses?

[Ray Schnoor]

What is an aperture viewing window, Rhys? And what is the fascination with your manual focus lenses?
I was also wondering what an aperture viewing window was.

Ray.

[erichlund]

Okay, I got an answer from a guy on DPReview. He says he has data for 12 lenses in a single bank. I've sent a question off to Nikon Tech Support, because I just don't know what true anymore. Probably won't have an answer until late tomorrow or Wednesday.

[Rhys]

The aperture window is a little window at the top of the viewfinder that can only be seen by looking up in the viewfinder. It shows the top number on the aperture dial (which is the aperture in use). The FM, FM2, F3 etc have this window. There's an indicator inside the viewfinder to give shutter speed and one to give exposure accuracy.

Coldrain - I have a ton of Nikon AIS prime lenses, hence my interest in a dSLR that will work properly with them.

[coldrain]

As you know a DSLR shows the aperture value in the viewfinder, a correct value if it knows the right aperture and probably a default number if it does not know it. So of course the D200 does not have a "aperture viewing window".

[Rhys]

As you know a DSLR shows the aperture value in the viewfinder, a correct value if it knows the right aperture and probably a default number if it does not know it. So of course the D200 does not have a "aperture viewing window".
But check a Nikon SLR - that shows the aperture in the viewfinder. There's a little window above the lens barrel that displays the current aperture in the viewfinder.

[coldrain]

Every DSLR shows the aperture through the view finder, your XT does, the D200 does, every Nikon DSLR does. WHY do you need it to be backward in time in a strange oldfashioned wayt it was with your very very very old FM???

I really do not get that. Others have stated that IF you tell the camera what lens you have put on, it will show aperture on the normal place in the viewfinder. Maybe you need more sleep ;):D

[Rhys]

Every DSLR shows the aperture through the view finder, your XT does, the D200 does, every Nikon DSLR does. WHY do you need it to be backward in time in a strange oldfashioned wayt it was with your very very very old FM???

I really do not get that. Others have stated that IF you tell the camera what lens you have put on, it will show aperture on the normal place in the viewfinder. Maybe you need more sleep ;):D

Lol. Ah but I'm used to my AIS lenses and the way they work. The D200 seems to put extra steps into the process. That seems to me to be the same as writing an email using hammer, chisel and tablets of stone.

[cdifoto]

Lol. Ah but I'm used to my AIS lenses and the way they work. The D200 seems to put extra steps into the process. That seems to me to be the same as writing an email using hammer, chisel and tablets of stone.

Good luck writing an email that way Rhys. It's not an old fashioned method...it's not even possible. Poor analogy. Go to bed, Rhys. :rolleyes:

[erichlund]

Well, the answer from Nikon is that you can have 1 lens defined per shooting bank. As previously stated, you don't have to define a lens to use it. You do have to define it to use matrix metering and to get data repeated to the viewfinder and top LCD. So that would be your four favorite lenses, one per shooting bank.

The bottom line is it's a bit of a kluge. It can be done, and you can use the lenses without setting them up in the menu system, but it would have been nice if someone at Nikon had simply recognized that a person may have up to a dozen of these lenses and just allowed for that many entries. What would have been even nicer is if they had found some way for the camera to just recognize the lenses. Guess I'll limit myself to about 4 of these guys. Not that it's a huge factor for me.

[erichlund]

Hey Rhys,

Speaking of limited selection:

Is the 28 the AI-S f2.8 and is the 85 the AI-S f1.4? Those are two that would be amoung those I WOULD be interested in. I know, I know. You are not getting rid of yours.

[Rhys]

Hey Rhys,

Speaking of limited selection:

Is the 28 the AI-S f2.8 and is the 85 the AI-S f1.4? Those are two that would be amoung those I WOULD be interested in. I know, I know. You are not getting rid of yours.

Actually, my 28, 135 and 300 are all Tamrons (AD2). I believe the 28 and 135 are both f2.5.

I'm not sure of the apertures for my 35, 50, 85, 200 (which are Nikon). They all have the 52mm filter thread though so it should be fairly easy to work out what f-stop they are. I know the 200 is f4. I believe the 50 and 85 are both f1.8.

Getting them might be time-consuming because they're in my aunt's house in Britain and I'm in America. Having said that, it's not beyond the realm of possibility for me to receive money and for my mother to post out. All lenses have Hoya UV SMC filters and caps at both ends. They're all in mint condition (except the Tamrons). Optically all are perfect except the 135 which has some fungus which does not seem to affect the picture quality. Now that's a really sharp lens.