Pana FZ5, Canon S2IS, Sony DMC H1...again

[Cosmogirl]

Hi!
I'm sure this question has been asked a bazillion time, but I have search, and still am not able to find answer to my question.:rolleyes: (will I ever??)

I'm looking for a big zoom digi. obviously...:p (price 400-650$) I would have love to buy a SLR, but my husband wanted to have a smaller size cam, and one that could make little movies. So we settled to this kinda of camera to be able to please everybody.:rolleyes:

I'm wanting a camera that is able to produce excellent quality pics, with the less noise possible, even at low light. I LOVE to do portraits, without flash, and although I am well aware that I will not be able to deliver as good result with a camera like this then a SLR, I'm still trying to find the one that will be best in that area. I like sharp images, and vibrant colors.

I've shopped around, and I have not been able to find the answer to my question, for every salesman has it's own opinion...

So can somebody help me please??? And If you feel that I might have lack one camera in my choices, please feel free to bring it to my attention. I've narrow down to this, but I'm not entiredly closed minded to one of these.
Thanks!:D

[Jason25]

Just FYI, all of these models have recently announced replacements :) FZ7, S3 IS and H2/H5.

I owned the H1 for several months before getting my D50. It's a great camera, but the flash is overpowered and takes forever to recycle (recharge for the next shot). This takes 6-8 seconds, depending on batteries. Don't get the H1 if you use flash a lot. I don't know if this has been fixed or not on the H2 and H5. The shutter lag is very good on the H1.

The H1 has a great lens, a very usable screen and has nice build quality. The colors are very vivid and saturated, and images look great straight out of the camera. ISO 200 and 400 noise is good (in this class of camera).

You can't use the optical zoom during movie mode, which is a setback if you'll use this often. Also, the video files are larger than the competition.

I can't really comment on the other 2 as I didn't get much time with the S2, and never used the FZ5.

Hope this helps!

[Cosmogirl]

Yeah, I know all the replacement have been announced. But I need a camera like this week, and I'm not sure I'll be able to afford the newer styles. I've stretched my budget to get one like this, so I won't stretch it more. If I strecth more, I'd get a SLR, but again, let's not enter that topic...:rolleyes: ;)
Thanks for your help. I do use the flash quite a bit, so I'll keep that in mind.
I'd love to have somebody being able to compare the quality of the pics at higher ISO.

[Jason25]

Yeah, I know all the replacement have been announced. But I need a camera like this week, and I'm not sure I'll be able to afford the newer styles. I've stretched my budget to get one like this, so I won't stretch it more. If I strecth more, I'd get a SLR, but again, let's not enter that topic...:rolleyes: ;)
Thanks for your help. I do use the flash quite a bit, so I'll keep that in mind.
I'd love to have somebody being able to compare the quality of the pics at higher ISO.
If you stretch to get an SLR, you'll forever stretch for bigger and better glass too :D Lens Lust Disease strikes all who tempt it!

[wisely_foolish]

you may like to try the H1 for its good noise profile. Flash on the S2 has a faster recycle time but noise can be a problem at ISO200 and 400.

Also, you may wish to look at the Fuji S5200/5600, they have good low light performance and noise performance for its class.

[Cosmogirl]

If you stretch to get an SLR, you'll forever stretch for bigger and better glass too :D Lens Lust Disease strikes all who tempt it!
LOL, I have already caught that disease with my film SLR...HIGHLY contagious!:p

[Jason25]

LOL, I have already caught that disease with my film SLR...HIGHLY contagious!:p
Well, it sounds like you should just buy yourself a digital body after this, since you can use your current lenses :D

[tim11]

..........and one that could make little movies.

I'm wanting a camera that is able to produce excellent quality pics, with the less noise possible, even at low light. ........


FZ# cameras are not for movies. Take FZ5 out of your short list.
H1 and S2 can take good photos, except for low light without flash.

[Cosmogirl]

H1 and S2 can take good photos, except for low light without flash.
except for a SLR, what digi cam, big zoom or not does take good quality pic at lowlight without flash?? I really love to take portraits, without flash...So I guess I might not be happy with either the H1 or the S2 will I?

[coldrain]

The S2 IS and H1 will both be superceded by cameras in may and april, and seem to have a much improved sensor (going on the specs). No idea if you want to wait THAT long, but if you can, I would wait for the S3 IS. It will most probably have better noise performance.

Else, my favorite of these 3 is the Canon S2 IS, for its fast performance, its nice construction, its colours and the swivel screen.

[Cosmogirl]

I saw that the preoreder price of the H2 is 400$us. Do we know what will be the price of the S3??

And I don't understand the preorder price being only 399$US, I mean, this is pratically the price of the H1 right now on the market?!? Will it be higher once it hits the stores?

[coldrain]

The H2 will be one of two models. The H3 will be positioned above it for initially $500. The S3 IS will be initially $500.

[Cosmogirl]

When you talk about H3, you mean H5 right?

I'd be interested to buy the H2, but the preorder is only available into the US:rolleyes: . I don't think it will be here until like summer:( SO I guess I'll have to stick with my choices. But again, I'm concerned about not being able to take good portraits without flash. Anybody has another suggestion that I could look into?

[coldrain]

Oops, yes I mean H5 ;)

[capedeci]

Panasonic FZ7 is dirt cheap, but its noise performance is really hellish.

i think if only panasonic outsource the sensor, they'll do great.

What made me disappointed in S3 H2 H5 is all still don't have hot shoe, even a dumb one is nice to have. Sony really lacked of hotshoed camera, only R1 have it now...

[Cosmogirl]

Duuuuuuuuuumb question, what is a hot shoe??

As far as Z7 goes, this is why i'm not super fond of it, I really think there is more noise. Looks like it is the complaint of everybody about it :(

Do you guys really think the new camera will really be better as far as higher ISO, or they just added ISO, to be in the battle? (after the megapixel battle, onto the ISO battle...not because you have more that they are good and usable...KWIM??)

[coldrain]

We will have to wait and see about the noise, but canon is not a company to up the ISO with very crap results, so maybe this new Sony sensor they both use may be indeed a bit better.

A hotshoe is a thing on top of your camera that can have a big external flash on top. It is only needed for some people, most who like using such flash units use DSLR's anyway. I am not a fan of flash photography, it makes things artificial and flat (unless in a controlled studio environment).

[Cosmogirl]

Thanks Coldrain, I didn't know that Canon use a SOny sensor as well.:confused: So I guess we can expect similar results...

As you have seen by my post, I'm not a fan of flash either, but I can see how this could be practical for some. Thanks!:D

I've found an awesome deal on the Sony today, so I'm thinking I'm going to go with that. I think the only thing that really makes me sad is that you can,t zoom in the movie mode. But I guess I'll find a way to live with that...;) Is the lens on the Sony really not as good as the Carl Zeiss one? I mean, you DO expect to have a good lens on the Canon, because it is Canon, but I don't know about SOny. I think it is the last point that is kinda bothering me...


I have also found an amazing deal on the Z5, but since the Z7 is out, I don't feel good buying an older camera. Don't know why?!? And the noise problem is really scaring me away.

[Jason25]

Thanks Coldrain, I didn't know that Canon use a SOny sensor as well.:confused: So I guess we can expect similar results...

As you have seen by my post, I'm not a fan of flash either, but I can see how this could be practical for some. Thanks!:D

I've found an awesome deal on the Sony today, so I'm thinking I'm going to go with that. I think the only thing that really makes me sad is that you can,t zoom in the movie mode. But I guess I'll find a way to live with that...;) Is the lens on the Sony really not as good as the Carl Zeiss one? I mean, you DO expect to have a good lens on the Canon, because it is Canon, but I don't know about SOny. I think it is the last point that is kinda bothering me...


I have also found an amazing deal on the Z5, but since the Z7 is out, I don't feel good buying an older camera. Don't know why?!? And the noise problem is really scaring me away.

The lens on the H1 looks to be the same as the new models that say Zeiss on them. Supposedly Zeiss didn't want to put their name on the lens of the H1 because it has image stabilization. Apparently they've gotten over that now. It's a great lens regardless!

Here's a couple I took with my H1. No photoshop, just resized for web :

http://home.comcast.net/~jmodzik/glacier.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~jmodzik/sunrise1.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~jmodzik/raven2.jpg

[capedeci]

edit.. nevermind

jason said it better than me at the same time

[coldrain]

Zeiss is just a marketing name, nothing to do with quality of the different lenses on the different Sony cameras. That said, most Sony cameras DO have good lenses. The H1 is a capable UZ, and if you like it more than the S2 IS, by all means try it out.

[Cosmogirl]

Wow Jason, these are some amazing pictures you got there. I really like those "wow" picture that are right out of the cam, you know, the ones that you don't have to retouch.

I thought the lenses on the H1 were NOT CZ?? Well, that is what a sony rep. told me...They wanted to try their own lenses, and see what would happen. Was that bull$..t?

Now, I have this other digital newbie question for ya'll. What is the advantage of having an extra good lense, if you have lots of noise in your image? I'm asking this in the regard of the Z5. My husband is drooling over the deal I have found, by telling me how great lenses are the Leica. But if I have noise in my pic, what do I care that I have a great lense??
TIA!

[Jason25]

Wow Jason, these are some amazing pictures you got there. I really like those "wow" picture that are right out of the cam, you know, the ones that you don't have to retouch.

I thought the lenses on the H1 were NOT CZ?? Well, that is what a sony rep. told me...They wanted to try their own lenses, and see what would happen. Was that bull$..t?

Now, I have this other digital newbie question for ya'll. What is the advantage of having an extra good lense, if you have lots of noise in your image? I'm asking this in the regard of the Z5. My husband is drooling over the deal I have found, by telling me how great lenses are the Leica. But if I have noise in my pic, what do I care that I have a great lense??
TIA!
Thanks :) The lens on the H1 isn't CZ labeled. The one on the H2/H5 is. They appear to be the same lens, just the H1 isn't marked CZ. They have the same specs and everything.

I completely agree with your comments regarding the FZ5!

[capedeci]

Thanks :) The lens on the H1 isn't CZ labeled. The one on the H2/H5 is. They appear to be the same lens, just the H1 isn't marked CZ. They have the same specs and everything.

I completely agree with your comments regarding the FZ5!

Good things about FZ5
-FAST focus, operation, and nice infinite burst
-Sharp detailed image at ISO80, ISO100
-Very light and small, almost unnoticeable to carry
-Flash recycles VERY fast (3 seconds)
-Accepts olympus WCON 07 wide converter

Bad things FZ5:
-Ugly noise at ISO200, Totally terrible at ISO400
-Poor low light -> high noise, poor flash performance (but fast)
-Smallish screen, playback zoom seems didnt really close up the image, it close up the small preview instead. But not sure. It's very hard to check focus and hanshake in this small screen

Good things H1:
-Large screen
-Decent speed, but noticeably slower than FZ5
-Decent ISO performance
-Better handling
-Stronger flash

Bad things:
-Bigger & heavier & FZ5
-Flash recharges at 9 seconds
-I don't like AAs, they tend to be empty, and inaccurate power reporting

thats all, I owned both, those are the difference in my view. Dont have the canon, cant say nothing

[Cosmogirl]

Thanks guys.
I think I feel more comfortable with the bad sides of the H1 then the ones of the Z5. So I gues this settles this battle. Now Ihave to complete this process in regard to the Canon. I think price will win in the end, but I have to admit that I like the fact that you can zoom in a video. I think it is the last thing really bothering me. Any words of wisdom anybody??


Jason, so I take it that I was right regarding the noise vs lense? I mean, i'm a film type of gal trying to change to digital. In films, the lense is all.If you have a good lense, chances are your image will be a good one. (always depend on the person behind the camera...:p ) but in digital, I feel there is so much more then just the lense that can alter a pic. But since I'm a newbie, I thought I was maybe missing the point, because there are SO many people who enjoy the Pana SO much...

[Jason25]

Thanks guys.
I think I feel more comfortable with the bad sides of the H1 then the ones of the Z5. So I gues this settles this battle. Now Ihave to complete this process in regard to the Canon. I think price will win in the end, but I have to admit that I like the fact that you can zoom in a video. I think it is the last thing really bothering me. Any words of wisdom anybody??


Jason, so I take it that I was right regarding the noise vs lense? I mean, i'm a film type of gal trying to change to digital. In films, the lense is all.If you have a good lense, chances are your image will be a good one. (always depend on the person behind the camera...:p ) but in digital, I feel there is so much more then just the lense that can alter a pic. But since I'm a newbie, I thought I was maybe missing the point, because there are SO many people who enjoy the Pana SO much...

Yeah, I think you're very correct. I was debating over the S2, H1 and FZ20 for awhile, and decided that regardless of how the Leica lens is, the sensor is not up to par for my taste. Many Panasonic users are also moving into DSLRs from what I've seen, because they want less noise. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying those cameras are unusable due to noise by any means, just that they don't cut it for me personally :)

As for a digital camera: The lens, the sensor, the in-camera processing (sharpening settings, saturation, etc) all affect the final image. Even RAW files go through SOME sort of processing, though they're easier to manipulate after the fact without losing quality. It's a whole new animal compared to film!

[coldrain]

Video will be limitted on any digital camera like this (lenght of video will be quite short), but the canon does have quite a bit better video. It also like you said allows zooming (not that i like that), it has that great swivel screen, and it has stereo sound.

For video this digital camera is hard to beat.

Another pre for the Canon, it uses SD cards instead of Sony's memory stick.

[Jason25]

Another pre for the Canon, it uses SD cards instead of Sony's memory stick.
Agreed. That's really irritating that the new H2 and H5 use the MS Duo sticks only. Quite a few people on DPR's Sony forum are angry about that.

[Cosmogirl]

What do you guys think about the Fuji 5200??? I mean the ISO does go higer on this one, and I'M not able to find a review about it. Any thoughts anyone?? How does it compare to the other 3??

[capedeci]

Another information, 2GB memory stick pro duo high speed is sold at $110 now, cheaper than its CF equivalent. Most ppl dont realize this, but its true that sony is cutting ms price.

[Cosmogirl]

Thanks for that!

[Jason25]

What do you guys think about the Fuji 5200??? I mean the ISO does go higer on this one, and I'M not able to find a review about it. Any thoughts anyone?? How does it compare to the other 3??
A lot of people like that camera as well. I'd give it a shot too if I were you :)