Minolta buys the farm... now what?

[DonSchap]

:mad: After 30 years of Minolta products and investment in "glass", the entire support system buys the farm. I know they were having problems, but there was a market wasn't there? Sony gets the mount?

The best Konica-Minolta offered was a 6.1 megapixel ccd with the 7D?

Where was the 9D? A camera with 8.2 megapixel or better? Did it even get consideration? :confused:

A last hurrah would have been nice, rather than this whimper exit. Sony was not a good choice. Their support system leaves a lot to be desired. Sorry, but I'm not impressed... not at all.

[timmciglobal]

The cameras did not fit with the sleek look or build that many people like. If they had built a camera with less... I don't know... 1970's of a look I guess it might of sold better imho.

Tim

[beachluvr]

:mad: After 30 years of Minolta products and investment in "glass", the entire support system buys the farm. I know they were having problems, but there was a market wasn't there? Sony gets the mount?

The best Konica-Minolta offered was a 6.1 megapixel ccd with the 7D?

Where was the 9D? A camera with 8.2 megapixel or better? Did it even get consideration? :confused:

A last hurrah would have been nice, rather than this whimper exit. Sony was not a good choice. Their support system leaves a lot to be desired. Sorry, but I'm not impressed... not at all.

Don - I feel your pain .... this is discussed at length elsewhere on this forum but here's my opinion on your specific post...

KM made a wise business move. It's really hard for the old photographic names like Minolta, Pentax, Contax, etc to compete with the uberbucks ad campaigns of the two big names. We saw that in cars when Mercedes "became" Chrysler and Jaguar "became" Ford. But let's not go with an analogy to cars, it's not the same kind of product. So in order to do just what you suggest, KM had to move that technology to a brand that had the monetary strength and name-clout to compete in the 21st century. Sony. Samsung is already doing the same with Pentax, and Samsung is getting to be THE premiere name in electronics worldwide (remember digital cameras are probably more "electronics" items than "photographic" items).

I don't follow any kind of reference of yours to how many megapixels KM products have or had ... there are tons of articles that address the megapixel myth ... KM has/had the picture quality it needed to compete.

The 9D has been hashed and rehashed to death. The common wisdom is that Sony will bring it to market almost unchanged as their transition piece from the old KM name to the new Sony name. If they do, it might be a decent product, if they don't who will care? No biggie.

The gadzillion (oh, am I going to hear about my "facts" wizards on that term) KM owners are likely rejoicing ... and with good reason ... that their mount didn't just vanish. If Sony adopts it there's a chance it could be one of the major standards in the camera industry. Or then again, some people might have heard the word "Betamax", lol.

As far as Sony being a good choice, I posted something recently in this forum about Sony's history in electronic photography. This isn't new stuff for them, it's more like their chance to be a real contender. Besides, KM already had a strong business relationship with them, why would they need to go elsewhere?

My final thought ... judging by the immense worldwide press attention and chatter on this and other digital forums I doubt very much if KM's marketing move was a "whimper exit".

[George Riehm]

:mad: After 30 years of Minolta products and investment in "glass", the entire support system buys the farm. I know they were having problems, but there was a market wasn't there? Sony gets the mount?

The best Konica-Minolta offered was a 6.1 megapixel ccd with the 7D?

Where was the 9D? A camera with 8.2 megapixel or better? Did it even get consideration? :confused:

A last hurrah would have been nice, rather than this whimper exit. Sony was not a good choice. Their support system leaves a lot to be desired. Sorry, but I'm not impressed... not at all.

The other choice would be to have been... what?... no support at all? I find your resentment of a company that agreed to take on the burden of another company and support existing product line and customers (albeit under a different logo) kind of curious.

So who would you have preferred take over?

After working with Sony on-and off for more than 20 years I think I know them pretty well. Great engineers, and design teams with a lot of inginuity and imagination, and a semiconductor group with equal savy, especially in the digital camera domain.

I have used their customer service team twice and found them to be every bit as responsive as any that I have dealt with.

And finally, what makes you think that an equal or better Sony version of the KM9 isn't on the table?

[coldrain]

The other choice would be to have been... what?... no support at all? I find your resentment of a company that agreed to take on the burden of another company and support existing product line and customers (albeit under a different logo) kind of curious.

So who would you have preferred take over?

After working with Sony on-and off for more than 20 years I think I know them pretty well. Great engineers, and design teams with a lot of inginuity and imagination, and a semiconductor group with equal savy, especially in the digital camera domain.

I have used their customer service team twice and found them to be every bit as responsive as any that I have dealt with.

And finally, what makes you think that an equal or better Sony version of the KM9 isn't on the table?
I totally agree. The market just was NOT there for either Konica or Minolta to sustain their camera divisions, so they needed a partner that could provide sensor technology. Then they had the problem of that their compact cameras were not selling at all, and the problem of that Sony and KM DSLR's would be competing against eachother.

Of course it is strange to see the Minolta name disappear, but it already was strange to see Konica stuck to it. Of course Sony will start of with an image problem, but KM already had an image problem, so no big change there. It will be interesting to see what Sony will introduce this year, it may well be unconventional and good (they are the supplier of most Nikon sensors, and their R&D will have nice sensors in the pipe line).

Oh, and to set a silly point from another post straight, yes, Jaguar is owned by Ford now, but Mercedes Benz is not owned by Chrysler. Mercedes Benz and Chrysler have merged, are equal partners.

[George Riehm]

Oh, and to set a silly point from another post straight, yes, Jaguar is owned by Ford now.

Another case of "bacon" (and jobs) being saved, when no one else wanted to step in. Volvo wasn't doing all that well (financially) either. But I digress...

... back to photography.;)

[David Metsky]

but Mercedes Benz is not owned by Chrysler. Mercedes Benz and Chrysler have merged, are equal partners.
Actually, MB bought Chrysler, not the other way around. On paper they might be equal partners, but it's clear who calls the shots.

-dave-

[George Riehm]

Actually, MB bought Chrysler, not the other way around. On paper they might be equal partners, but it's clear who calls the shots.

-dave-

The "new" corporation is actually Daimler-Chrysler. Mercedes-Benz, Maybach, and Smart, are in the Mercedes Car Group, Chrysler, Jeep, and Dodge are in the Chrysler Group, and Freightliner, Mercedes, and other trucks are in the Commercial Vehicles Division.

Daimler is the lead investor, but all 3 vehicle divisions are separate business units drawing on corporate IP, and development. Similar to what Ford is doing with Jaguar and Volvo and partial ownership of Mazda.

Trivia: Daimler and Maybach (with inital help from Otto) patented the 4-stroke IC engine in 1885. Maybachs first car design was the Mercedes, named after his daughter.

Now back to Nikon, Canon, Sony-Minolta, Samsung-Pentax, Fuji, Olympus, Sigma, Leaf, Phase One, and Hasselblad...etc.

[coldrain]

The "new" corporation is actually Daimler-Chrysler. Mercedes-Benz, Maybach, and Smart, are in the Mercedes Car Group, Chrysler, Jeep, and Dodge are in the Chrysler Group, and Freightliner, Mercedes, and other trucks are in the Commercial Vehicles Division.

Daimler is the lead investor, but all 3 vehicle divisions are separate business units drawing on corporate IP, and development. Similar to what Ford is doing with Jaguar and Volvo and partial ownership of Mazda.

Trivia: Daimler and Maybach (with inital help from Otto) patented the 4-stroke IC engine in 1885. Maybachs first car design was the Mercedes, named after his daughter.

Now back to Nikon, Canon, Sony-Minolta, Samsung-Pentax, Fuji, Olympus, Sigma, Leaf, Phase One, and Hasselblad...etc.

Haha, Sony-Minolta;) You are cheeky today

[cdifoto]

I can't wait till there's a Cankonaxony brand on the market. Since we all know Canon kicks everyone's booty and will end up owning them all! :D :p


Imagine the mount on that bad boy...accepting all lenses... :eek:

[Rhys]

It's kind of scary to see big names falling left right and centre. I guess we'll end up with everything being made in China and sold under Western brand names. That begs the question that aside from support services and possibly design, what will happen in the West?

[coldrain]

It's kind of scary to see big names falling left right and centre. I guess we'll end up with everything being made in China and sold under Western brand names. That begs the question that aside from support services and possibly design, what will happen in the West?
Yeah, Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Pentax, Olympus, all BIG western names. :rolleyes: :confused:

*whispers* Japan may lay to the west of the USA, Rhys, but still we call it the east ;)

oh, ps: Sony is also VERY Chinese ;)

[cdifoto]

I thought Sony was Russian.

[beachluvr]

I totally agree. The market just was NOT there for either Konica or Minolta to sustain their camera divisions, so they needed a partner that could provide sensor technology.

Interesting ... however the DSLR market is huge and getting huger. It's one of the reasons Nikon pulled out of most of their film cameras and why so much is being invested into the DSLR development segment. KM may have had the potential to sustain their camera division, but instead they opted for a wise business decision to have one of the most recognized brand names in history associated with the technology they developed. By the way, Sony provides sensor technology for many of the other "big" names in digicams as well

but KM already had an image problem,

What would that be? Reviewer comments and owner/user satisfaction? Any facts?

Oh, and to set a silly point from another post straight, yes, Jaguar is owned by Ford now, but Mercedes Benz is not owned by Chrysler. Mercedes Benz and Chrysler have merged, are equal partners

As I said Jaguar "became" Ford and Mercedes "became" Chrysler. Didn't say a word about who owns who

Above = a little touchup work on the subject ...

Random thought - There was a shoot a few days ago with an upcoming Chrysler product, sure looked a lot like the Mercedes R500 :eek:

[beachluvr]

I thought Sony was Russian.

There's a lot of cool stuff coming from Sony ...

SONY = Soon Only Not Yet

;)

[George Riehm]

I can't wait till there's a Cankonaxony brand on the market. Since we all know Canon kicks everyone's booty and will end up owning them all! :D :p


Imagine the mount on that bad boy...accepting all lenses... :eek:

You may be correct, as Canon seems to be doing everything right, and the rest (including Nikon) just don't seem to have the financial and technical resources to keep up.

It remains to be seen if, and how, Sony and Samsung emerge as competitors in the dSLR consumer and professional ranks. It may end up that these two electronic giants, with very strong semiconductor design and manufacturing, will inherit the remaining dSLR heritage. Both are capable of mass produced, full-frame CMOS and CCD sensors. Sony, in particular, seems to be equal to the task.

As to the lens mount dilema: I'm thinking that the new Sony morphing liquid metal programable (MLMP) lens mount should take care of that.;)

[beachluvr]

As this is a digital camera resource page, not exclusively devoted to DSLRs, it seems appropriate to point out that Kodak recently sold more cameras in the U.S. than anyone else taking the #1 spot from Sony. That "newcomer" Sony doesn't seem to be doing too bad ;)

(Source: research firm IDC of Framingham, Mass)

In the July-to-September period, digital camera shipments to domestic retailers rose nearly 13 percent to 5.6-million from 5-million a year earlier.

Kodak shipped 1.25-million digital cameras in the quarter - 21 percent more than in 2004's third quarter - its market share rose to 21.3 percent from 19.8 percent.

Canon and Sony were tied for second place, each with 1-million shipments and a 17.7 percent slice of the U.S. market. Longtime frontrunner Sony, which clung to the No. 1 spot with a 20 percent share a year ago, backpedaled while Canon made up ground on its year-ago share of 16 percent.

Fuji Photo Film Co. jumped from seventh to fourth place with 483,000 shipments, an 8.6 percent share, while Olympus Corp. slipped to a 7.1 percent share and a virtual tie for fifth with Nikon Corp.

----------------------

~But then McDonalds sells a helluva lot of burgers~

[coldrain]

As to the lens mount dilema: I'm thinking that the new Sony morphing liquid metal programable (MLMP) lens mount should take care of that.;)
Some evidence of Sony implementing some kind of IS on a full frame sensor to be introduced this summer.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1574612

[beachluvr]

Some evidence of Sony implementing some kind of IS on a full frame sensor to be introduced this summer.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1574612

The link goes to a news story about an earthquake hitting Tokyo ... trying to figure out of coldrain is trying to tell us something about his feelings for Sony or if it has to do with the ultimate IS system? :)

--------------------

~Insert witty quote here~

[Rhys]

Yeah, Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Pentax, Olympus, all BIG western names. :rolleyes: :confused:

*whispers* Japan may lay to the west of the USA, Rhys, but still we call it the east ;)

oh, ps: Sony is also VERY Chinese ;)

I was actually talking politically. The East as in the Evil Empire :p

[George Riehm]

Some evidence of Sony implementing some kind of IS on a full frame sensor to be introduced this summer.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1574612

That's a good one! With the aquisition of KM Anti-Shake (not IS in this case) on a larger scale does seem like a worthwhile project.

You are "on" today. But time for my nap.

[coldrain]

That's a good one! With the aquisition of KM Anti-Shake (not IS in this case) on a larger scale does seem like a worthwhile project.

You are "on" today. But time for my nap.
Well, you can't of course move a full frame sensor without moving it partly out of the picture circle... that is on of the reasons why Canon builds its IS into the lens.

But I thought it was funny.:D