What kind of computer do you use?

[murrays]

There’s a discussion on another board regarding switching from a PC to Mac. There seems to be a perception that a lot of photographers use Macs and I wanted to check out that premise. With that, what is your current computer preference/situation?

-murray

[Jason25]

I have a modified Dell desktop and a Mac laptop (PowerBook G4 12"). This is the first Mac I've owned. I left the Dell in storage when I moved if that tells you anything :)

[murrays]

I have a modified Dell desktop and a Mac laptop (PowerBook G4 12"). This is the first Mac I've owned. I left the Dell in storage when I moved if that tells you anything :)

Opps, I guess I should have had an option for using both platforms :o

If you have both a Mac and a PC, please vote for the platform you use the most or that you prefer to use.

-murray

[Rhys]

Now there are intel based Macs, you can run OSX, Linux and Windows on the same system.

[aparmley]

Now there are intel based Macs, you can run OSX, Linux and Windows on the same system.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,124370,00.asp

as for the windows part of that equation, EFI seems to be a small speed bump, but just as the article says, its only a matter of time.

But, As for me. I have been wanting to test out Mac for a while now and I believe that the new intel macs are whats going to get me to make the financial leap! But, I have plenty of Windows systems, I'd never make my Mac a dual boot.

I think I will be making my Mac debut with their newer MacBook Pro, the one with 1.83Ghz duo processor, I'll add 2 GB of ram, the faster 7,200 RPM 100 GB harddrive. I'm really excited about this laptop and can't wait until I can afford one. . .

[coldrain]

I have had macs for over 10 years now, and I always have preferred them over wintel computers. As software developer I of course work with wintel computers, but at home I have macs.

[Blob]

Ken Rockwell wrote an in depth essay on this subject. It is rather long but I believe he presents a real-world comparison between the two platforms as they relate to photography.


http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/why-pros-use-mac.htm

[ItsReallyDarren]

In the past I have used pc's and today I continue to use pcs. Today my mind is beginning to change with the introduction of the new Intel powered macs. My main reason to sticking to pc's was the ability to play video games on the system. Now that I dont have a desire to play much video games my priorities have pointed a little closer to the mac corner. Im leaning over to macs a little more now that working with pictures has taken a larger chunk of my hobby interests.
If given the choice (and unlimited funding) I would use both mac and pc's to get the best of both worlds. Since thats not true my next computer, though thats probably not going to happen for a while since mine works just fine, will be a mac.

[George Riehm]

Now that they have a competent, high speed, low power, solution for laptop use, my next laptop may well be a Mac. My old 4 pound Twinhead has been a great travel companion, but it may be time to shift gears. Depends on how much they want for the G4 replacement.

For desktop use the AMD 2800+PC and Win 2K work fine.

[Rhys]

I can't wait to go Mac. I've just set up a wifi network in my house so that my wife and I can surf at the same time. She said "no" to a cabled network and as luck would have it, we were given a wifi hub by her mother who couldn't get it to work. A fair bit of cursing later we have a working wifi network currently named "General Cornwallis" :p

[ReF]

i have a "decent" PC with 1GB memory and regularly work with 300mb files in photoshop. so far i don't feel any kind of burning desire to go out and change systems, though i haven't really used a Mac in years and may not know what i'm missing. what's are the big differences between PC and Mac?

[coldrain]

Better designed UI elements in OS X. A different paradigm with windows vs applications. In windows the window IS the application, which brings problems of consistency when a program has more than one window open. With a Mac an application HAS windows. The menu bar is separate and always on top of the screen. It has one drawback however, it means that tool bars and such also are separate windows. Both have their plusses and minusses.
With OS X applications are much more consistent in design. Just compare MS Outlook, Excel, Word, Explorer, Messenger, Media player.... all are different in IU design. That is without taking any 3rd party software into account!

A lot less trouble... NO virusses, NO spy ware, NO ad ware. A lot less security risks with internet. No real need for firewall stuff.

Simpler program installation. NO registry headaches. Much more advanced graphic engine of the OS.
Real "plug and play" as MS calls it with a Mac.

[murrays]

what's are the big differences between PC and Mac?

Here's an article from the Wall St Journal by Walt Mossberg: http://ptech.wsj.com/archive/solution-20051130.html

To put it simply: No desktop offered by Dell or Hewlett-Packard or Sony or Gateway can match the new iMac G5's combination of power, elegance, simplicity, ease of use, built-in software, stability and security. From setup to performing the most intense tasks, it's a pleasure to use.

I think that last bit is key, my Mac is a pleasure to use. Certainly, it's not fault free, but I don't feel like I'm fighting it as I do with my work PC.

-murray

[aparmley]

i have a "decent" PC with 1GB memory and regularly work with 300mb files in photoshop. so far i don't feel any kind of burning desire to go out and change systems, though i haven't really used a Mac in years and may not know what i'm missing. what's are the big differences between PC and Mac?

I can understand this. Don't get me wrong. I don't dislike PCs, I've never had a problem with any PC I own. I keep up on updates to everything, OS, antivirus, thirdparty firewall, all behind a router with a hardware firewall. Never really had any issues with any of my systems. After a while things get quirky from time to time but I annually reinstall all my OSes to keep them running at their best. I spend a weekend doing that, but really, its totally worth it. I can see the arguement that you should have to do that, but i install a lot of programs and uninstall alot of programs, defragging the harddrive every month is fine, but you have to clean up the registry and other things so I find that a fresh install is the best way to do it. I use Ghost to make a reinstall point just after I installed the OS and put my key programs on it. So that when I reninstall, everything thats important to me is there. I've had no problems with this system.

As for my desire for a Mac. I am seriously just interested in all things technology therefore by default, Macs interest me. The Mac seem to have a more creative and artistic following and seem to have that because they are wonderful platforms that provided some of the best tools in the respective trades. This is why I am intereseted in it. Photography, music editing, perhaps some movie editing, slideshow creation right out of the box. . . everything intergrated. Its a very attractive package. .I just plain want one. I won't be a pissed off PC user making the switch, I will be a curious interested person who wants to see what Macs have to offer. Which might make the iMac the best choice as it is far more affordable and slightly better performer than the laptop. . .

[murrays]

I keep up on updates to everything, OS, antivirus, thirdparty firewall, all behind a router with a hardware firewall. Never really had any issues with any of my systems. After a while things get quirky from time to time but I annually reinstall all my OSes to keep them running at their best. I spend a weekend doing that, but really, its totally worth it.

FWIW, I’ve got a 6 year old Mac as my main and only computer. It started out with OS 9 and was upgraded to OS X a couple years ago. I’ve never reinstalled software, only installed updates.

I had a HD go flakey on me a couple years ago (not the original BTW). I purchased a new one, cloned the old HD to the new one and I’ve been good to go ever since.

I don’t run antivirus or have a firewall other than the OS X default. I have a cable modem that’s on nearly all the time. My OS is a couple major revisions old.

Other than the HD issue above, I’ve never had any problems beyond the occasional application crash and the more rare OS crash. In fact, the bigger problem is my 5 yo daughter hitting the power button when I’m doing something :D

Macs may cost a hundred or two more in initial cost, but in your words, “it’s totally worth it” to avoid the extra work you outlined above.


Which might make the iMac the best choice as it is far more affordable and slightly better performer than the laptop.

You may be interested in the Mac Mini. For about $500 you can get a Mac and use a monitor and keyboard/mouse you have laying around. It’ll be getting the Intel chip this year, but will likely lag the iMac in performance.

Personally, I’m getting a new laptop a month or two after they come out. My 6 yo machine just can’t handle 6 MP photos very well.

-murray

[ReF]

thanks for the info. i guess i "didn't really have time" to look into it more because i already have two fairly involved and complex hobbies, + girlfriend + 40,000 pictures to sort/backup/process, + going out to shoot, etc..

sounds very interesting so far - would appreciate any other info that anyone could offer. thanks :)

[Scott6]

I run PC, WinXP, and FedoraCore 4.. Dualcore AMD64, 2gb DDR, SLI, the works.. but gameing and computer hardware are my real hobbie.. Cameras are becomeing of intrest to me, when I get my D50 Ill be gettign more into it.

I have a MAC running TigerOS but I rarely use it, I got it for free

[murrays]

I have a MAC running TigerOS but I rarely use it, I got it for free

Care to send me that poor Mac that doesn't get used :D

Just curious, what do you think of the OS in general, aside from lack of familiarity.

-murray

[ktixx]

I have a PC that I am happy with. I don't quite understand the benefit of having a MAC, I understand that some people like the OS better, but as far as processing capabilities I don't get what the difference in a MAC is. In today's PC world you can have a Dual Pentium Xenon System (two 3.6Ghz chips) with 4GB of memory. Sure it will cost you around $2400 for just the board, chips and memory, but I can't imagin a MAC system that would be any better. Just my opinon...
Ken

[ktixx]

Personally, I’m getting a new laptop a month or two after they come out. My 6 yo machine just can’t handle 6 MP photos very well.


I have a 6 Year old Pentium 3 850Mhz w/512 MB memory that has no problem with 8MP files...PC's Win!! (kidding) :D :p

As far as virus software..I don't use any and never have. I have had a virus once or twice, but it was easily removed with a specified tool. I think a lot of the problem with spyware and viruses is the user. I realize it is a lot easier to get these problems with PC's but as long as a you know what your doing there really isn't much of a problem.
Ken

[murrays]

I don't quite understand the benefit of having a MAC, I understand that some people like the OS better, but as far as processing capabilities I don't get what the difference in a MAC is.

I agree, either platform has the horsepower to do whatever you want, though it may cost you.

You seem to gloss over the benefit of the OS, though. Just like a well stocked and neatly organized workshop makes work easier, I believe that the Mac OS has that advantage over Windows.

-murray

[murrays]

I think a lot of the problem with spyware and viruses is the user. I realize it is a lot easier to get these problems with PC's but as long as a you know what your doing there really isn't much of a problem.

Perhaps,though I was able to hose up my work PC even though I don't have administrative privileges and with far less web surfing than I do at home. I'd have to assume our IT dept knows what they're doing since they have a couple hundred PC's to maintain.

The tech who did a "power restore" mentioned that spyware is actually a bigger issue than viruses.

-murray

[jnev]

i'm currently using a PC that i built on my own. 3.4ghz P4, 1gb RAM, 460GB (total) of hd space, nvidia 6600gt, fairly decent spec. though i've never had any major problems with windows, i've been itching to switch to a Mac for a while now. i've played with the OS a lot, and it's just so much more polished, so much easier to use. the one thing that's been keeping me from switching is the lack of some apps that are windows-only, and i didn't want to use VPC. now that Apple has switched to x86, my next computer will (hopefully) be a MacBook Pro:D

[GrimJeeper]

I guess I'm a little perplexed by whether the Mac is better than the PC debate because, in the end, most of us use Photoshop to edit our photos. Based on the reviews I've read of the Mac version of P-shop Elements it simply uses iPhoto to sort and organize photos. Other than that, they work pretty much the same from what I've read. My suggestion is to use whatever software you're comfortable with, regardless of the operating system. I've spent all of my money on a DSLR and lenses. I don't have any more money to devote to a new Mac or PC. If P-shop is better for the Mac, I'd like to know. I might start a Mac fund if it is.

[coldrain]

Photoshop is the same on both computers. You do not buy a mac for a better photoshop, maybe for a better operating system. The mac's colour management system is better though, but it is not fair to say that that makes photoshop on a mac better.

[Rhys]

Perhaps,though I was able to hose up my work PC even though I don't have administrative privileges and with far less web surfing than I do at home. I'd have to assume our IT dept knows what they're doing since they have a couple hundred PC's to maintain.

The tech who did a "power restore" mentioned that spyware is actually a bigger issue than viruses.

-murray

If I do a spyware scan then I can knock out the occasional spyware program that has installed itself. If I do a virus scan then normally I find nothing although most viruses are server-side filtered these days.

[Scott6]

Care to send me that poor Mac that doesn't get used :D

Just curious, what do you think of the OS in general, aside from lack of familiarity.

-murray

its ok.. I like to give everythign a chance.. but I just dont see what it can do that my Windows or linux cant do that makes it so much better... I used Tiger for 1 month straigh, didnt touch windows once and when the month was up, I put my PC back in.. and the max went to the garage...

I think people are jsut drawn into them by ipods and atrative looks..

[murrays]

its ok.. I like to give everythign a chance.. but I just dont see what it can do that my Windows or linux cant do that makes it so much better... I used Tiger for 1 month straigh, didnt touch windows once and when the month was up, I put my PC back in.. and the max went to the garage...

Based on your comments, I would assume that you are more advanced with computers than the average user. The average user doesn’t want to mess with anti virus & spyware programs, they don’t enjoy tweaking their machine to get the best performance.

The average computer user wants to turn it on and have it work. The want an appliance similar to their TV. That’s what the Mac can do better than your Windows or Linux machine. But then I suspect that isn’t much of an advantage to you.

As for a couple minor things, I’ve grown to really like the OS X Dock; I can click on the same spot on my screen every time to bring up an application regardless of whether it’s running or not. Can Windows do that? It seems that in Windows I have to click in one place to launch an application and another, ever changing place on the task bar to bring the application to the front.

OS X can automatically total the contents of folders and sort them along with files. To my knowledge, I can’t even sort folders and files together by date let alone size.

Bottom line, I find my Mac simply more enjoyable/less frustrating to use than my PC at work. It’s just a better design, like the little things inside of a car that make you realize that someone really put a lot of thought into the design.

-murray

[Rhys]

Based on your comments, I would assume that you are more advanced with computers than the average user. The average user doesn’t want to mess with anti virus & spyware programs, they don’t enjoy tweaking their machine to get the best performance.

The average computer user wants to turn it on and have it work. The want an appliance similar to their TV. That’s what the Mac can do better than your Windows or Linux machine. But then I suspect that isn’t much of an advantage to you.

As for a couple minor things, I’ve grown to really like the OS X Dock; I can click on the same spot on my screen every time to bring up an application regardless of whether it’s running or not. Can Windows do that? It seems that in Windows I have to click in one place to launch an application and another, ever changing place on the task bar to bring the application to the front.

OS X can automatically total the contents of folders and sort them along with files. To my knowledge, I can’t even sort folders and files together by date let alone size.

Bottom line, I find my Mac simply more enjoyable/less frustrating to use than my PC at work. It’s just a better design, like the little things inside of a car that make you realize that someone really put a lot of thought into the design.

-murray


I can sort folders by date using the correct View option in Windows. Having said that, unless I click on folders or hover the mouse over them, I don't know whether they're empty or not.

I have a ton of Windows and pre-Windows experience, having been programming computers since about 1983 (when I had my first computer). My personal preferance is to go away from Microsoft-based products. Why?

Aside from the inadequacies in the operating systems that can and do lead to catastrophic failures and data loss (the biggest problem in Windows is the centralised registry), there are many operational problems. The biggest operational problem is that Microsoft doesn't reveal enough about its O/S for software houses to be able to write software that is guaranteed to work. I have written software that works just fine on the test machines. When I introduced it to other machines, it fell on its backside. Now that's not bad programming. It's slight differences in the way that Windows is set up on different machines and there's no way in many instances of telling what'll happen. I guess this is why so much Windows-based software that I've tried just hasn't worked. Come on - be honest - you must have bought at least one program that didn't work! My experience of vCD and video DVD writing software has been universally apalling. This is my main reason for wanting to switch to Mac (that and the inadequacies in the O/S).

When I install or remove software, why should I have to reboot the system? Why should I have to wait an age for the software to install/uninstall? Generally, when I code for Windows, my software doesn't need to be installed/uninstalled. Sure, I might put menu items in that allow the software to be accessed via the menu but I don't put tons of junk in the registry - my software data is held in a local folder. No need to reboot for installation/uninstallation. With Macs, it's even simpler - just drag the unwanted application to the dustbin. Simple!

As I build my own systems (mostly), I find the fact that Macs come with everything on them rather pleasant. No need to build the system or to buy a system and then find one needs to add a ton of stuff. The main problem these days with self-built systems is not drivers. Drivers are pretty well supported now by XP. The main problem is the quality of retail parts. In the past three years I have had: 1 DOA disk drive, 1 DOA CPU and 1 stick of 512mb DDR 2700 that caught fire. I believe that faulty memory also damaged the main board of the system I was using which is probably why that failed some months later. ALl those parts were brand new and the faults emerged as soon as I tried them. I was amazed to see a tongue of flame leaping from the memory - never ever seen that before. Probably never will see it again (well, I hope I won't. It was most disconcerting). That dodgy ram came from Circuit City!

Through the years also, I have come to realise that as the price of laptops keeps falling, there's not a lot of point in buying desktops. With the advent of digital photography, the need for storage has increased. Although it's beyond most people's ken, I reckon you can't do better than have a server with your photos stored (using raided disk drives) and a laptop for everything else. Even without a server, I'd say CD/DVD storage for photos is a good idea. My experience of DVD writing on PCs has been poor. I've had a ton of PC-based DVD writing software that just produces coasters.

Bottom line - buy a Mac (preferably a laptop with a SuperDrive).

[murrays]

I can sort folders by date using the correct View option in Windows. Having said that, unless I click on folders or hover the mouse over them, I don't know whether they're empty or not.

Perhaps I wasn't clear; when I click on "Date Modified" in a folder window, it sorts the folders by date and the files by date, but the folders are all on top and the files are below. For some reason, Windows doesn't/can't show me that a file was modified more recently than a folder.

It's certainly not a big deal (totaling folder sizes and sorting is much more useful), but it's just one of many annoying little things that reminds me how cludgy Windows is compared to OS X.

-murray

[Pomaric]

Short answer, I'm going to school for a Bachelors in Digital photography, I use Mac.

[Scott6]

I do find XP to be the most stable MS OS of all, and I have had less problem with it than any other OS and I use it more than others. IMO XP pro with SP2, the proper hot fixes and a few tweaks to be the most stable and reliable OS o the market right now. Comparing it to other Linux genres

-That being said, new MAC stuff is great in that area as well, but I just don’t use enough for various reasons for me to compare stability to XPpro.


I think to an dumb home user is going to like whatever he or she uses first. If there old computer there upgrading form has windows 2000 on it then XP is the only upgrade there going to fell comfortable with. MAC will never be an option for them. If there buying new and never had there own PC than I think it will come down to what the salesman at worst-buy or CompUSA wants them to run…

[murrays]

-That being said, new MAC stuff is great in that area as well, but I just don’t use enough for various reasons for me to compare stability to XPpro.

My Mac stays on for several weeks at a time with reboots for installs or when my daughter hits the glowing power button :) I just let it go to sleep when I’m not using it. I only turn it off if I’m going on vacation or a big storm is passing through.


I think to an dumb home user is going to like whatever he or she uses first. If there old computer there upgrading form has windows 2000 on it then XP is the only upgrade there going to fell comfortable with. MAC will never be an option for them. If there buying new and never had there own PC than I think it will come down to what the salesman at worst-buy or CompUSA wants them to run…

I have to disagree with this. My sister is definitely what you would call a “dumb home user” and has never used anything but Windows. Last summer, they bought a Mac Mini and she loves it. She has found that she can do a lot more with the Mac since most tasks are more obvious rather than hidden in Windows.

I think it’s like renting an unfamiliar car on a trip, it takes you a few minutes to find the wipers, the lights, etc, but ultimately, it does pretty much the same thing as your car, you just have to find the right buttons.

Also, the fact that Apple’s computer sales are growing faster than PC sales (increasing market share) and even the poll above tell me that lots of PC users are moving towards Macs.

-murray

[Ray Schnoor]

My Mac stays on for several weeks at a time with reboots for installs or when my daughter hits the glowing power button :) I just let it go to sleep when I’m not using it. I only turn it off if I’m going on vacation or a big storm is passing through.
I used to have a Mac which I used to leave on all of the time. I also used to have a PC which I used to leave on all of the time. I now have another PC which I used to leave on all of the time. I never had a problem doing this with any computer. I now turn it off at night, because I just don't see a reason to leave it on anymore.

Also, the fact that Apple’s computer sales are growing faster than PC sales (increasing market share) and even the poll above tell me that lots of PC users are moving towards Macs.
I don't think that this poll really shows that PC users are moving towards Macs. All it shows is that if a PC user is thinking of upgrading he/she is considering all options. I think that you would be crazy not to consider everything that could possibly be the best solution for your needs. Every time I upgrade my computer, I always look at Macs and PCs. It seems that if I upgrade once every 4 years, I would be crazy to not look at the advancements made in both types. This doesn't necessarily mean that I will switch from a Mac to a PC, from a PC to a Mac, or stay with the same type of computer.

All of my home computers I have kept almost exactly 4 years, whether it was a Mac or a PC. My most recent just happens to be a HP which I have had almost 2.5 years. In July of 2007 when I am next looking to upgrade, I will consider Macs and PCs just as I have always done.

[Rhys]

Every time I have changed computers I have looked at Mac. Last time I didn't go Mac because I had loads of PC software. When I got my XP machine up and running, I found half the stuff that'd run on Win98 wouldn't under XP so I would have been just as well off to change systems.

This time I'm stuck waiting for Apple to produce an Intel based Mac laptop with a 12" screen. I'm toying with the idea of getting a cheapo Dell laptop as a tide-me-over until I can afford a 12" Mac laptop.

[Scott6]

windows XP has a compatibility mode, I have yet to every run into an older PC program that dosnt run on XPpro. At work I even have a really old dos slowdown program running on a 3.0Ghz P4, and windows XPpro. And the program requires no more than 400Mhz CPU speed and dos 6.xx.

the First compatibilty problem I have ever hit on XP was jsut because it was on XP64-bit

[murrays]

This time I'm stuck waiting for Apple to produce an Intel based Mac laptop with a 12" screen. I'm toying with the idea of getting a cheapo Dell laptop as a tide-me-over until I can afford a 12" Mac laptop.

Just so you know, there is currently no way to run Windows software on an Intel Mac. Someone, perhaps Microsoft, will likely make a product similar to Virtual PC to run Windows software on a Intel Mac.

-murray

[Rhys]

Just so you know, there is currently no way to run Windows software on an Intel Mac. Someone, perhaps Microsoft, will likely make a product similar to Virtual PC to run Windows software on a Intel Mac.

-murray

Vista should run on a Mac.

[drifter106]

Perhaps I wasn't clear; when I click on "Date Modified" in a folder window, it sorts the folders by date and the files by date, but the folders are all on top and the files are below. For some reason, Windows doesn't/can't show me that a file was modified more recently than a folder.

It's certainly not a big deal (totaling folder sizes and sorting is much more useful), but it's just one of many annoying little things that reminds me how cludgy Windows is compared to OS X.

-murray

I have built 2 pc's at home; amd 3500 winnie and most recently a opteron 175. At work I have an Apple. The home versions blow the Apple away but the Apple is by no means in the same ball park as the computers I have at home. If Apples were that great you would see them with a growing and significant larger market share. Benchmarks with the Intel cpu's in the Apple computers are somewhat of a letdown. For an ALL AROUND solution you can't beat a pc.

[Rhys]

I have built 2 pc's at home; amd 3500 winnie and most recently a opteron 175. At work I have an Apple. The home versions blow the Apple away but the Apple is by no means in the same ball park as the computers I have at home. If Apples were that great you would see them with a growing and significant larger market share. Benchmarks with the Intel cpu's in the Apple computers are somewhat of a letdown. For an ALL AROUND solution you can't beat a pc.

Except PC software usually sucks wheras it usually doesn't on an Apple.

[capedeci]

i used PC since 1995. in 2005 got a iBook, and dump it, never touched it again, as all my software didnt work, it made the mac like a PDA or organizer without apps :) try to sell it but no one wants it here.

my PC is:
p4 2.4ghz HT
1,5gb ram
440gb hdd
geforrce fx (30 bucks, cant play good games)
firewire card

thats all

[George Riehm]

There’s a discussion on another board regarding switching from a PC to Mac. There seems to be a perception that a lot of photographers use Macs and I wanted to check out that premise. With that, what is your current computer preference/situation?

-murray

I noticed that you don't have my VIC-20 or Comodore 64 listed, and I use a PET8000 (aka CBM8000) at work. The only thing that bothers me is that it takes about 25 minutes to download my 5MB RAW files, and I can only store 6 images per 90 minute cassette tape. Also I haven't found a good software package to convert RAW to text files, so if anyone has a lead...

... I'm considering moving up to an ATARI 1040, so that should help, as I can run Lisa OS through the TOS emulator.

That was fun...

[Rhys]

I noticed that you don't have my VIC-20 or Comodore 64 listed, and I use a PET8000 (aka CBM8000) at work. The only thing that bothers me is that it takes about 25 minutes to download my 5MB RAW files, and I can only store 6 images per 90 minute cassette tape. Also I haven't found a good software package to convert RAW to text files, so if anyone has a lead...

... I'm considering moving up to an ATARI 1024, so that should help, as I can run Lisa OS through the TOS emulator.

That was fun...

Perhaps you should consider moving to a ZX80 with the extra 16k expansion pack? I gather the tape drive works faster with those.

[George Riehm]

Perhaps you should consider moving to a ZX80 with the extra 16k expansion pack? I gather the tape drive works faster with those.

I had a Timex Sinclair kit (w/16K ex pack) that worked great. I had a tough time with the membrane keyboard, but it was compact. Never got around to buying the case, but it was a very cool computer. After a week of major assembly it worked on the first try. Woo-hoo! I learned how to program in basic on it as well.:)

[Rhys]

I had a Timex Sinclair kit (w/16K ex pack) that worked great. I had a tough time with the membrane keyboard, but it was compact. Never got around to buying the case, but it was a very cool computer. After a week of major assembly it worked on the first try. Woo-hoo! I learned how to program in basic on it as well.:)

Lol. I nearly bought a ZX80 but then the ZX81 came out and then I heard about a colour computer from Sinclair but in the end I had a Vic-20. I still have it somewhere and it still works. Massive amounts of memory - 3.5k as standard with an extra 8k and 16k expansion pack giving me a whopping 27.5k. Seems strange now that 27.5k isn't enough for even a basic word-processing document.

I remember seeing the membrane keyboard on the ZX80/1 with hollows in it where people had pressed too hard. I heard of one guy who used one to track lift in his glider and another who used it to control his lathe.

Personally, I'm still waiting for a 12" iBook and while I do so, am using a Compaq widescreen laptop. Call me paranoid but all the computers my stepson has used seem to be failing even though the failure causes don't seem related to his use of them.

[murrays]

If Apples were that great you would see them with a growing and significant larger market share. Benchmarks with the Intel cpu's in the Apple computers are somewhat of a letdown. For an ALL AROUND solution you can't beat a pc.

FWIW, Apple's computer market share IS growing by all accounts that I've seen. Regardless, market share does not mean better by any stretch. I could just as easily state...

"If BMW's were that great you see them with a growing and significantly larger market share." But by you're logic, a Ford 500 is a better car than a BMW 330i since it has more market share.

-murray

[Rhys]

FWIW, Apple's computer market share IS growing by all accounts that I've seen. Regardless, market share does not mean better by any stretch. I could just as easily state...

"If BMW's were that great you see them with a growing and significantly larger market share." But by you're logic, a Ford 500 is a better car than a BMW 330i since it has more market share.

-murray

And where does that leave Ferrari, Lambourgini, Lotus, Aston-Martin, Bentley, Caterham etc?

[coldrain]

And where does that leave Ferrari, Lambourgini, Lotus, Aston-Martin, Bentley, Caterham etc?
Or Audi? ;) a more mudane brand.

[Rhys]

Or Audi? ;) a more mudane brand.

Can't get more mundane than a Trebant :p

[JTL]

Or Audi? ;) a more mudane brand.Hey, watch it threre!!! My car is very sensitive...:D

[George Riehm]

Thought that the Apple fans would like this:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-7891-8185

[suemccartin]

I don't know if this is just a preference thing or what but Mac has always been the machine of choice for heavy graphics manipulation. Most graphic artists use Macs to actually draw and color even though something like a pod of networked intels might do the actual number crunching for the cg. I think this may be because Mac was first with SCSI first with firewire and first with some other little techno tidbits that made working with huge files more efficient--then there was also the venerable Video Toaster that only ran on Mac. Remember, XP has really only been out for a couple of years, before that OSX had it all over windows 98 in terms of memory handling etc.

I'm happy with my pc, I've got a graphic artist friend with a Mac and the parts are impossible to buy off the shelf in some cases and ridiculously overpriced, try getting service on a mac that doesn't cost your left arm. I have nothing against macs, even had one on my desk at work for awhile but Apple's insistence on the monopoly for everything means there's little to no competition and everything is too--expensive, too---built into the mother board, and, too--too hard to fix or troubleshoot on your own for my taste. When I was trying to help her with her machine issues I found exactly 5 forums where anyone was putting forth any kind of tech assistance with them. NOPE sorry I refuse to pay some snotnosed butt wipe in a shop fifty per hour to do something I can do myself because Apple wants to maintain a monopoly (and why isn't the government saying something to them about the way they run their business..........hmmmmmmmmm?)

[Warin]

I used MS Powered macines for 16 years, from a 286 running MS-DOS to a loaded AMD Athlon in 2003. I referred to my Mac using friends as "the delusional 5%".

Then in October 03, after returning to school, I decided that I wanted a notebook. I looked at Toshiba and Compaq, and then I made the mistake of picking up a Powerbook in a local shop that sells both PC and Mac. It felt more solid and well built than any of the others I had looed at. It had a Superdrive and metal enclosure that I couldnt get on a PC without spending another 6-700 dollars. So I went out on a limb and ordered one.

For the three weeks it took to get (a build to order w/ student discount... had to come from the factory), I woke up every morning with the shakes thinking "oh my god, what have I done?!?" For the first two weeks I had it, I thought hte same thing.

Then I realized something. When I wasnted to do something, I just clicked, or dragged and dropped, and it worked. I didnt have to go through 10 menus, or into some multiple layered system directory to adjust things.

that began my love affair with OS X.

In the end, the hardware is just that... hardware. I have discovered what an elegant operating system does best: it frees you up to just do the things you need to do, without dedicating time every week to upkeep. Is it better with things like CS2 than a PC running Windows? Honestly, I'd have to say its a dead heat. I use PC's at school and everything seems to work the same (if only a little uglier) than on my Mac. But I havent met a PC that can keep up to the Quad Core G5 that I am now working on.

I liken it to the Canon/Nikon debate. And give it the same answer that I give m customers: If you are already working with one system and are happy, why switch?

[murrays]

... the parts are impossible to buy off the shelf in some cases and ridiculously overpriced, try getting service on a mac that doesn't cost your left arm.

Can you give some examples? Seems to me, the "parts" are largely the same (hard drives, memory, usb/firewire devices, etc.) What parts are you referring to?

-murray

[Rhys]

Can you give some examples? Seems to me, the "parts" are largely the same (hard drives, memory, usb/firewire devices, etc.) What parts are you referring to?

-murray

Only the mainboard is a bit different on a Mac now.

[suemccartin]

Can you give some examples? Seems to me, the "parts" are largely the same (hard drives, memory, usb/firewire devices, etc.) What parts are you referring to?

-murray

No, mac parts are not standard with PC, for instance power supplies are different, a 350W PC power supply might run you $50.00 if you shop, for a MAC that same power supply will run you $250.00+ EVERYWHERE and that's if you can find someone to sell you one other than through a shop where they also will mug you @ 75.00+ for installation. From what I've heard they may only switch a couple of wires but that's enough to mean a pc power supply won't work on a MAC unless you know exactly what you're doing. It's also my impression the memory is not standard with the PC and may not even be DDR it might be one of those standards that the PC never really picked up because it was too expensive (even though it offered high performance--like RAMBUS or something).

Some things are standard like SCSI and now days USB and Firewire and I've seen a few video cards that work in either MAC or PC but there is precious little stuff like that......... Most MACS I'm familiar with also have this thing about building everything into the motherboard (few to no expansion slots)which means if you have a problem you can forget disabling the problem component and replacing it with a card like you can in a PC many times (i.e. my onboard ethernet chip went out so I shut it off and popped in a PCI ethernet controller--can't do that on a lot of macs).

MAC motherboards cost as much as a whole new machine, which may very well be the point. My graphics artist friend had a G5, they even go so far as to make it so you need special tools to get into the damn cpu case!!!!!!!!!!!!! (requires a very hard to find hex wrench of a non-standard size) Her problem turned out to be mostly dog hair and dust all over the inside of the case making components overheat, but, if you can't get inside to clean out the dust and dog hair I say what kinda damn company makes it impossible for the customer to do basic preventive maintenance? There is some kind of reset button hidden on the motherboard and they don't even bother to mention its existence in the manual for the machine, they want you to pay a shop $80.00 to press the cmos clear/reset button on the motherboard!!!! What kind of company treats customers this way? A VERY, VERY, GREEDY ONE IN MY BOOK. And I don't buy the apple modo that they only do this to ensure high quality in their systems....hogwash....they do this take the customer to the cleaners.

If you're made of money, don't upgrade much except external devices, and, replace your system every few years (and always buy the extended warranty) I'm sure you'll be happy with a MAC. If you like to fiddle and fix your own and add on to your system and keep it five years then you probably won't be satisfied with a Mac.

[coldrain]

First of all, it is Mac or Macintosh, not MAC. MAC is an number that identifies ethernet cards.

2nd, you require no tools what so ever to open a G5. You just open the side... mother board comes totally accessible, no computer is to open as easily as a G4 or G5 tower Mac.

Many computer companies make custom power supplies for different computer models, a bit silly to pretend you can plonk any cheap OEM powersupply into any PC, you simply can not. And that chinese manufacturers flood the market with cheap powersupplies that they lose money on is of course to blame on Apple :p

Macs use the same memory as PC's do. You just have to be careful to get the right type/specification, same as with PC's.

The reason you need a different graphics card for a Mac was in the fact that Intel, contrary to what is logical and what everyone used, made the 8080 and decendants big endian. The PPC is little endian, making the need for switching words in memory. This makes graphics cards at least to need different firm ware, and they need to be designed to use both little endian and big endian. Nothing to do with Apple that you needed different cards.

Firewire is an Apple standard, and USB only got to be popular with the introduction of the original iMac, which dumped all old ports in favour of USB.

Any tower design Mac (G4 or G4) has used USB, Firewire, PCI slots, AGP slot, IDE harddrives and CD/DVD drives. I have no idea why you seem to think they are not expandable. Not that you need to often, since they do come complete with everything including gigabit Ethernet. No, you can't put a PCI Ethernet card into an all in one machine like an iMac, nor in a Powerbook. But you can't do that with some Wintel laptop or all in one machine either, so a moot point.

All in all a very biased post with a lot of factually wrong "information",
suemccartin....

PS: my old PowerMac 8600/250 from 1997 already had PCI slots, it has 2 PCI graphics cards, SCSI and IDE drives, USB and Firewire via a standard 15$ PCI card. It is not like only the newest models use standards.

[acpryor]

This thread has become useless. Most of these type Mac vs PC type threads do and we don't need this debate on this forum. We're above it. There are plenty of these type of debates on the web for people to research. I'm not quite sure why MurrayS started the poll only to refute PC users with almost every one of their posts. People have their preferences and they should be respected. I use both platforms and am happy with both of them for various reasons.

[coldrain]

good point and great idea.

[murrays]

I'm not quite sure why MurrayS started the poll only to refute PC users with almost every one of their posts.

Only when they are wrong :D

Seriously, I just wanted some data regarding the percentage of Mac users out there and the prevalence of so called switchers...purely for my own selfish reasons.

I’ve got what I came here for so feel free to close the thread.

Thanks for playing!
-murray

[acpryor]

Only when they are wrong :D

Seriously, I just wanted some data regarding the percentage of Mac users out there and the prevalence of so called switchers...purely for my own selfish reasons.

I’ve got what I came here for so feel free to close the thread.

Thanks for playing!
-murray

Well, I naturally assume most serious photo/video/musician types use Macs (as I do) and those who do some similar tasks along with gaming, etc use PCs (like I do). Regardless, to each their own. These type threads usually descend into ugliness pretty quick and I'd just like to see this thread end before it does. Thankfully, pretty much everyone here kept things civil, but these type comments can get nasty quick. Best to get a quick poll and not get into debating the various merits. I certainly understand your curiosity.