JungleRoom
01-01-2006, 06:37 PM
I have been looking for an ultra-compact digital camera for low light conditions for a while now, previously in this thread: http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15162&page=3
However, I really didn't come into any real conclusion since information on how different ultra-compact perform in low light is not really available. My requirements were that that the camera must be small and espcially slimness would be a big plus (since I would mostly carry in my inner breast pocket). The camera must be easy to use (I really don't know how to or even want to adjust things manually that much) and then there's the low light thing. Let me explain it: Basically I plan on taking pictures in the nighttime under the street lights (coming home from a bar ;) ) or alternatively I plan on taking pictures at someone's house with mood lighting. Of course, the camera would act as a bacic camera as well (holidays, taking pics of pets et cetera).
The really important thing, however, really is that the camera has to be small. The reason for this is that I plan to carry it with my almost always and if I go , say, dancing, I'd feel really ankward having a big camera swinging about in my pocket. That's why cameras like Fujifilm F10/F11 or Canon SD550 are not options. Fujifilm Z1/Z2 are the size of Sony T9, but based on reviews, they really aren't as good although Z1 seems to have less noise in high ISO levels than T9 (Z2, I hear, sucks big time).
The reason why I have these three cameras as choices is because they are all small/slim, they all have been well received by the critics and two of them are black in finish (the black finish was a requirement as well, but N1 is just so darn cool, even with a silver finnish). Other reasons are that these cameras are all new, two of them have OIS, and I do like their style (even Panasonic's style has become to appeal me).
The size and style:
Sony N1 weighs 185g and is 2.27 cm (0.89") in depth. Sony T9 weighs 160g and is 2.00 cm (0.8") in depth. Panasonic FX9 weighs 155g and is 2.42 cm (0.95") in depth. (BTW I'm not 100 per cent about the weights although I tried to find the correct weight with batteries and a mem card inside). T9 is clearly the way to go if you want an extra small camera. However, when I tried some of the T-line cameras in a store, they feel almost too small and I was worried I'd break them. N1 is slimmer than FX9 but bigger in other dimensions and heavier in weight. However, since the slimness is the most important thing, N1 would be come second in this category. Oh, and if you're wondering, Canon SD550 weighs pretty much the same as Sony N1, BUT SD550's depth (2.7 cm or 1.1") is the factor here which makes me not want to have it as an option.
Stylewise I again like T9 the most as it is available in black and it just looks so cool. N1, though not black, also looks like a cool camera. FX9 feels more classic and does not appeal as much as the other two.
Performance in low light:
Of course, when you make an extra-small camera like T9 you have to compromise and the flash performance and overall the low light performance is not that great. A member of this forum, madkat, bought this camera, and he was kinda disappointed in performance in low light conditions. I'm not too sure about FX9's performance but I hear it has got a better flash than T9 has. Then there's the N1. I previously has mentioned about a photo I had seen in a review of this camera. The photo was taken in a city street in the dark with only the city lights offering any kind of light. The photo looked pretty good, and now with DCResource's own review of N1 as proof, N1 seems to have really good low light performance for an ultra compact, and I bet it's better than FX9 in that respect.
Other features:
Let's discuss about OIS. I have heard good things about it like it really helps in my kind of situations where I just pop the camera out, hold it in my hand and take quick snapshots of friends posing or sometimes even jumping in the snow or whatever (I know the motion-shots can be tricky). Then again I've heard some bad things about it like it adds noise and makes low light pics a bit worse. T9 and FX9 both have it, and N1 does not have it. But is it really so important. Sure it may come handy when taking pics of moving objects but most of my pics I'd take of inamimate objects. This is a real questionmark...
Sony N1 has that big 3" touch-screen lcd. One of my worries has been that as I'd keep the camera in my pocket, the lcd would get scratched. Sure there are these protection-layers (Sony has them) but still. I've tried to find info on whether N1 has more durable lcd since you have to stick your fingers to it all the time, but with no luck. Also, I think it's great that N1 doesn't have all that many buttons (I really want a simple camera) but then again, the touch-screen might be difficult to use and if my hands are dirty in some way the screen gets dirty as well -- although it's quite safe to assume that lcd can be cleaned easily since it can't be used withough leaving fingerprints.
Then there's the temperature-issue. I live in Finland and it's winter right now. I have a really good winter-coat and the camera would be safe there from the cold, but I worry that if I take the camera out for something like 5-15 minutes in order to shoot outside would the cold ruin the camera (outside cold -> inside humidity). I did find in Canon's webpage that with Canon's cams the operating temparature should prefarably be 0-40 degrees Celsius (32-104 degrees Fahrenheit). Finland's winter is kinda mild right now with the temperature being -12 degrees Celsius (10.4 degrees Fahrenheit) but it can get up to -20 degrees Celsius (-4 degrees Fahrenheit) sometimes. However, some people have told me that they have used their cameras in cold weather without the camera suffering any kind of damage, and actually my friend has this a couple of years old Sony U20 camera (really small, though kinda thick) that he has used in similar situations than I would and his camera still works. But... I really wouldn't want to destroy an expensive camera in cold.
I guess I should point out that while Panasonic FX9 has received much praise and won quite a lot of group tests, the one problem everybody seems to mention about it is the noise. Some have even called it the 'noise king'. Sure, all ultra-compacts have noise (which camera doesn't), but I guess FX9 seems to have more noise than avarage.
The batterylife of these cameras is decent with N1 having the best batterylife. FX9 is takes home the silver in this category and T9 the bronze. As for on-board memory, both N1 and T9 have over 50Mts of it (although I hear N1 has only 26Mt for pics and the rest goes to the photoalbum and slideshow thingies) but FX9 has only 16Mts which isn't that much.
One other thing, both the Sonys have USB2.0 but FX9 has only the slower USB (USB1.1 I believe). This is a minor concern but I really would like USB2.0 since I wouldn't be using a memorycard reader (who has the time to take the memorycard out, right :D ).
Conclusion:
There are many choices but these three stand out, to me at least. They are all ultrasmall/ultraslim, they are all new with up-to-date features and they have all been received well. Also, they are all stylish which is important for me as well. The Sonys are somewhat more expensive than the Panasonic but I feel the Sonys offer cool features for the buck. Obviously though the best bang to the buck camera is Panasonic FX9, but my budget isn't that tight. Still, I'd really hate it if I paid something like 500 dollars (in Finland it's probably more) for Sony N1 and then broke it due to cold or due my dropping the camera in a bar.
Any thoughts? Sorry about the long post, by the way :eek:
EDIT: I tried to cover everything important in this text but seem to have left out two things. First, I would NOT be printing out the photos but would only be storing them in my laptop (so that I can remember the good old times with my friends). Secondly, some people may wonder why I want to buy an expensive ultra-compact if I A) won't print out the pics B) use the camera mainly as a bar-camera C) worry the camera breaks due to hits or due to cold. Well the answer is that I'm just one of those guys who likes to buy fancy gadgets and who wants his gadgets to be just a little bit better than his friends gadgets are. However, I do realize always that it makes no sense to buy an expensive gadget if I don't have any use for its many properties. I am a working student and don't have daddy's trust fund so while I do well and can buy somewhat expensive things, my budget is limited and for example Sony N1 would be a big purchase for me moneywise. Let's just say, that while I do have some budget limitations, I usually go for the best bangs, not the best bangs for the bug ;
However, I really didn't come into any real conclusion since information on how different ultra-compact perform in low light is not really available. My requirements were that that the camera must be small and espcially slimness would be a big plus (since I would mostly carry in my inner breast pocket). The camera must be easy to use (I really don't know how to or even want to adjust things manually that much) and then there's the low light thing. Let me explain it: Basically I plan on taking pictures in the nighttime under the street lights (coming home from a bar ;) ) or alternatively I plan on taking pictures at someone's house with mood lighting. Of course, the camera would act as a bacic camera as well (holidays, taking pics of pets et cetera).
The really important thing, however, really is that the camera has to be small. The reason for this is that I plan to carry it with my almost always and if I go , say, dancing, I'd feel really ankward having a big camera swinging about in my pocket. That's why cameras like Fujifilm F10/F11 or Canon SD550 are not options. Fujifilm Z1/Z2 are the size of Sony T9, but based on reviews, they really aren't as good although Z1 seems to have less noise in high ISO levels than T9 (Z2, I hear, sucks big time).
The reason why I have these three cameras as choices is because they are all small/slim, they all have been well received by the critics and two of them are black in finish (the black finish was a requirement as well, but N1 is just so darn cool, even with a silver finnish). Other reasons are that these cameras are all new, two of them have OIS, and I do like their style (even Panasonic's style has become to appeal me).
The size and style:
Sony N1 weighs 185g and is 2.27 cm (0.89") in depth. Sony T9 weighs 160g and is 2.00 cm (0.8") in depth. Panasonic FX9 weighs 155g and is 2.42 cm (0.95") in depth. (BTW I'm not 100 per cent about the weights although I tried to find the correct weight with batteries and a mem card inside). T9 is clearly the way to go if you want an extra small camera. However, when I tried some of the T-line cameras in a store, they feel almost too small and I was worried I'd break them. N1 is slimmer than FX9 but bigger in other dimensions and heavier in weight. However, since the slimness is the most important thing, N1 would be come second in this category. Oh, and if you're wondering, Canon SD550 weighs pretty much the same as Sony N1, BUT SD550's depth (2.7 cm or 1.1") is the factor here which makes me not want to have it as an option.
Stylewise I again like T9 the most as it is available in black and it just looks so cool. N1, though not black, also looks like a cool camera. FX9 feels more classic and does not appeal as much as the other two.
Performance in low light:
Of course, when you make an extra-small camera like T9 you have to compromise and the flash performance and overall the low light performance is not that great. A member of this forum, madkat, bought this camera, and he was kinda disappointed in performance in low light conditions. I'm not too sure about FX9's performance but I hear it has got a better flash than T9 has. Then there's the N1. I previously has mentioned about a photo I had seen in a review of this camera. The photo was taken in a city street in the dark with only the city lights offering any kind of light. The photo looked pretty good, and now with DCResource's own review of N1 as proof, N1 seems to have really good low light performance for an ultra compact, and I bet it's better than FX9 in that respect.
Other features:
Let's discuss about OIS. I have heard good things about it like it really helps in my kind of situations where I just pop the camera out, hold it in my hand and take quick snapshots of friends posing or sometimes even jumping in the snow or whatever (I know the motion-shots can be tricky). Then again I've heard some bad things about it like it adds noise and makes low light pics a bit worse. T9 and FX9 both have it, and N1 does not have it. But is it really so important. Sure it may come handy when taking pics of moving objects but most of my pics I'd take of inamimate objects. This is a real questionmark...
Sony N1 has that big 3" touch-screen lcd. One of my worries has been that as I'd keep the camera in my pocket, the lcd would get scratched. Sure there are these protection-layers (Sony has them) but still. I've tried to find info on whether N1 has more durable lcd since you have to stick your fingers to it all the time, but with no luck. Also, I think it's great that N1 doesn't have all that many buttons (I really want a simple camera) but then again, the touch-screen might be difficult to use and if my hands are dirty in some way the screen gets dirty as well -- although it's quite safe to assume that lcd can be cleaned easily since it can't be used withough leaving fingerprints.
Then there's the temperature-issue. I live in Finland and it's winter right now. I have a really good winter-coat and the camera would be safe there from the cold, but I worry that if I take the camera out for something like 5-15 minutes in order to shoot outside would the cold ruin the camera (outside cold -> inside humidity). I did find in Canon's webpage that with Canon's cams the operating temparature should prefarably be 0-40 degrees Celsius (32-104 degrees Fahrenheit). Finland's winter is kinda mild right now with the temperature being -12 degrees Celsius (10.4 degrees Fahrenheit) but it can get up to -20 degrees Celsius (-4 degrees Fahrenheit) sometimes. However, some people have told me that they have used their cameras in cold weather without the camera suffering any kind of damage, and actually my friend has this a couple of years old Sony U20 camera (really small, though kinda thick) that he has used in similar situations than I would and his camera still works. But... I really wouldn't want to destroy an expensive camera in cold.
I guess I should point out that while Panasonic FX9 has received much praise and won quite a lot of group tests, the one problem everybody seems to mention about it is the noise. Some have even called it the 'noise king'. Sure, all ultra-compacts have noise (which camera doesn't), but I guess FX9 seems to have more noise than avarage.
The batterylife of these cameras is decent with N1 having the best batterylife. FX9 is takes home the silver in this category and T9 the bronze. As for on-board memory, both N1 and T9 have over 50Mts of it (although I hear N1 has only 26Mt for pics and the rest goes to the photoalbum and slideshow thingies) but FX9 has only 16Mts which isn't that much.
One other thing, both the Sonys have USB2.0 but FX9 has only the slower USB (USB1.1 I believe). This is a minor concern but I really would like USB2.0 since I wouldn't be using a memorycard reader (who has the time to take the memorycard out, right :D ).
Conclusion:
There are many choices but these three stand out, to me at least. They are all ultrasmall/ultraslim, they are all new with up-to-date features and they have all been received well. Also, they are all stylish which is important for me as well. The Sonys are somewhat more expensive than the Panasonic but I feel the Sonys offer cool features for the buck. Obviously though the best bang to the buck camera is Panasonic FX9, but my budget isn't that tight. Still, I'd really hate it if I paid something like 500 dollars (in Finland it's probably more) for Sony N1 and then broke it due to cold or due my dropping the camera in a bar.
Any thoughts? Sorry about the long post, by the way :eek:
EDIT: I tried to cover everything important in this text but seem to have left out two things. First, I would NOT be printing out the photos but would only be storing them in my laptop (so that I can remember the good old times with my friends). Secondly, some people may wonder why I want to buy an expensive ultra-compact if I A) won't print out the pics B) use the camera mainly as a bar-camera C) worry the camera breaks due to hits or due to cold. Well the answer is that I'm just one of those guys who likes to buy fancy gadgets and who wants his gadgets to be just a little bit better than his friends gadgets are. However, I do realize always that it makes no sense to buy an expensive gadget if I don't have any use for its many properties. I am a working student and don't have daddy's trust fund so while I do well and can buy somewhat expensive things, my budget is limited and for example Sony N1 would be a big purchase for me moneywise. Let's just say, that while I do have some budget limitations, I usually go for the best bangs, not the best bangs for the bug ;