New FZ20 fail @#!!!!

[andshoot]

Hi everyone : After 2 months research I decided to buy FZ20 which found suits to my need. I was experimenting different scenerios in shooting and most time it gave me wonderful shots. But yesterday I was covering a Birthday party and had to take snaps at 1 frame for every 15 seconds or so but after the 27 th frame the LCD appeared with lot of horizontal lines and smeared colour. I am attaching a portion of the frame for everyone to take a look.

Iam using Kingston memory and Vivitar 2500 flash. I did a reseat of the memory and even removed the battery from camera in a hope to see it reset. But nothing helped. I have a feeling the image processor got overheated and failed. after the camera cool down every thing was back to normal. Have any one in this forum had seen this happen any suggestions ?
Contacting Panasonic to see what explanation they have.

[Mike63]

Does the camera do this without the vivitar flash attached? This looks like an electrical interference of some sort.

[andshoot]

As I mention in my first post the camera turns OK when cools down,no chance it has anything to do with flash. I have a different flash so I will try that also to see any connection.

[genece]

I googled that flash and while most people say it is about 15 volt there were some reports that the trigger voltage was way higher than that.
I would check the voltage of that flash and any other you are going to use.

[andshoot]

Thanks genece for the effort but the trigger voltage is only 10.4 V.
checked your link nice work

[genece]

Do you ever see that without the flash being used?

I have left a FZ20 on for 10 hrs or so and never saw that result...I do not think overheating is the problem,but what do I know?

I hope you get it figured out.

One other time just to see if it would do it ...I took photos in burst mode till I filled a 1gb card and when I downloaded them to the computer I only took a quick look before deleteing most of them ,but I did not see that.
I think that was well over 500 photos.

[andshoot]

Now I am trying to duplicate the situation but nothing happend even after 80 almost continues frames. I used the same flash in test. I am confused now what could have caused it. The camera has only has 3 weeks of usage I wish it fails completly before the warranty expires :confused:

[genece]

Good luck.........I wonder, since as someone else said it looked like electrical interference....If there could have been an external source of interference.

I am not sure what may do that ..maybe a security device?

[Mike63]

Any electrical device that is not shielded real good could cause interference. When I did a google search I saw that some types of studio lights and microphones cause interference also. A cell phone or other transmitter that is to close might be a possible cause to.

[andshoot]

I got to duplicate the problem. I was using manual focus mode in low light( 60W room light) different flash and shot close to 30 frames with adjusting focus for every frame, it failed with streaks and colours as earlier. I allowed to cool the camera for 10 minutes this time no flash but sensitivity in 400 low light after 20 frames it failed again fail to focus, LCD went purple colour with all streaked image.

:mad: Some what sure some component in image processing is the culprit.

I cannot belive there is an interference because both the set up was at different houses only thing common was me. Thanks Mike for all replies.

[genece]

I think you need to contact Panasonic.. it seems something is failing.

[jcon]

I agree, get that camera checked ASAP!

[andshoot]

I had to take my camera to the Panasonic repair center.They told about 21 days to get it repaired. I was little frustrated and called Panasonic to see if its poissible to get a replacement rather than waiting another 3 weeks. They had the same answer like wait another 21 days so they can repair it for me. I was little concerned about the repairs too usually they introduce more problems ( like taking your brand new car to the dealer to get the noise fixed end up with something new;) )

Any way the camera showed up at my doorstep on 7th day and had the invoice stated 'repair electrical'. Had gone through my initial tests and seems working fine until now ! . I see something new too when I shut down the unit it shows the yellow triangle with the exclamation ( attention/caution ? ) on the LCD before it turns off- no big deal may be they used a newer firmware, does any other user of FZ20 had seen this Just curious.:)

[tim11]

..... I see something new too when I shut down the unit it shows the yellow triangle with the exclamation ( attention/caution ? ) on the LCD before it turns off- no big deal may be they used a newer firmware, does any other user of FZ20 had seen this Just curious.:)
Whenever I turn off I see the word 'LUMIX' on LCD for about half a second while the lens retracts before it turns off. The yellow triangle is strange to me. Let's hope it won't turn into something else more sinister.

[jcon]

Unfortunatly, you might need to call Panasonic again. The only time I ever heard of any type of warning was when it was plugged into the computer and you turned the camera off before unplugging. But thats not a yellow triangle. Again, Id contact Panasonic again, this time, be firm in your request for a replacement. Good Luck!

[rschofield]

I see something new too when I shut down the unit it shows the yellow triangle with the exclamation ( attention/caution ? ) on the LCD before it turns off

andshoot,

It seems as though Panasonic Repair forgot to take your camera out of Test Mode before returning it to you. They should be able to walk you through the procedure to correct that but they might require you to return it to the repair facility to do so.


Dick

[andshoot]

Yes me too think the same. The repair shop forget to take it out of service mode because I see new options in setup menu like "pixel refresh" which was not there before the repair. I came across some more issues also, now under 'A' mode (aperture priority) I was unable to adjust the aperture using the exposure button at certain times. I read the manual few more times to make sure I am not doing something dump.
Looks like I will have to call Panasonic for a replacement.:mad:

[tim11]

"pixel refresh"???? This is definitely requires a call to Panasonic.

[lappisstudent]

when I shut down the unit it shows the yellow triangle with the exclamation ( attention/caution ? ) on the LCD before it turns off

I actually came across this about half a year ago, and I can confirm that it's caused when entering the cameras service mode, and it's possible to get rid of it.

I was going to change the cameras locality from Euro/UK/Asia to US (that way you are able to have a TV as a viewfinder while shooting), and I found an good guide in Italian for that (no, I dont speak a single word of Italian, but google translated it for me. At the same page, there was a guide for how to see the cameras firmware revision, and I couldn't resist trying that. I guess there is something wrong with googles translation, since I got stuck with the yellow exclamation point after that. I strongly suggest that nobody tries to check their firmware revisions before that procedure and all assorted problems are fully documented in English. There is nothing interesting to do in service mode either, except to see firmware revision. But Panasonic don't release updates, so that information is useless anyway. ( dangerous translation of guide, which probably makes perfect sence for those speaking Italian (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.alfonsomartone.itb.it/omfhlj.html)). At that page they also warn for activating the "Pixel Refresh", since it can damage the LCD, even causing dead pixels.

Anyway, I got rid of the exclamation point when I changed the location of the camera, probably because that causes a complete reset of the entire camera. You could first try an ordinary reset of the camera, and see if that works. Otherwise you could try to change the locality, and change it back. Changing locality resets the camera completely, and removed my exclamation point. But it will also reset the filename counter, which could be a problem if you like to keep all your images in the same folder. In case your locality isn't set to US, you might want to use the "US" locality in the future. "US" performs exactly as the european locality, but adds NTSC output while shooting so you can use a TV as viewfinder.

I used the guide for changing locality at the translated Italian page above to get rid of the exclamation point, and substituted some words that couldn't be correct, I think these was the substitutions I made.
googles translation ==> my version
"the skillful" key ==> right key (for navigating menus, has a flash sign on it)
keys "on" ==> upp key (for changing exposure, navigating menus,etc)
----------------------------------

Otherwise, there is a similar guide for changing locality for the FZ10 that is reported to work with the FZ20 as well (vkelim's site, Initial settings menu (Locality) (http://www.users.bigpond.com/vkelim/DMCFZ10/node70.html#sub:Initial-settings-menu)). They state that at least the FZ10 could be disabled by pushing the wrong buttons, but removing the battery makes it usable again.

Hope this helps

[rschofield]

andshoot,

I'd be VERY CAREFUL about getting your camera out of service mode. (Yes, I've had mine in service mode :eek:. I put it in service mode a year or so ago in order to find out what firmware my FZ20 was using. But I was extremely careful to do nothing else and exited service mode without doing anything else.)

The reason I suggested that you return your camera to Panasonic Repair was so that they would verify that you had not inadvertently done something in the mean time that would affect the camera's operation. They should be able to do this while you waited if they had any regret over giving you back the camera before they had fully completed the repair.


Dick

[andshoot]

Gave Panasonic one more chance. I had taken the camera today back to my local Panasonic authorised service center and they took it out of the service mode. Now I have the LUMIX logo when I turn the unit off and the PIXEL Refresh mode is gone.

Thanks Simon and Dick for giving me clear instructions. But may be little late to read it. I had activated the 'pixel refresh' twice to see what the hell it does before I read your post. I heard a shutter click and everything came back as usual:eek: . Simon can you make clear what pixel I was getting reset, is it the LCD pixels or the CMOS sensor pixels. How could I find the damage it may have caused- any clue so I can watch for it close. :mad:

I am waiting for the next breakdown so I can throw my camera at their face.

[jcon]

I dont think I would tell Panasonic about you little pixel refresher adventure, they may not be so quick to fix it or replace it then if something goes wrong. They could realisticaly say that you damaged the camera yourself by tinkering. I hope it works out for the best, keep us posted on what comes of it!

[lappisstudent]

Simon can you make clear what pixel I was getting reset, is it the LCD pixels or the CMOS sensor pixels.

I'm sorry that i can't offer more than educated guesses. But my speculations might help you check for any damages (if any) that might have occurred.

Since you heard the shutter working, my guess is that "Pixel Refresh" has something to do with searching for malfunctioning pixels of the CCD. The camera is probably searching for stuck pixels and dead pixels, and storing their positions. Those pixels are ignored when you are taking pictures, the camera replaces those pixels with the average of the surrounding pixels before writing the image to the memory card.

If the camera was depending on light entering the lens while pixel mapping, something might go terribly wrong if the camera was pointing at something else then it expected. Then the camera might think that a lot of pixels are bad, and that should probably be visible at once. But I guess it's probably not any danger if your images seem to be fine. It's probably best if no one uses "pixel refreshing" before somebody knows what it really does. The Italian site seems to claim that the warranty is void if one uses the "pixel refresh" option, but it so it's probably best not to experiment with it at all. Concider that some pixels might be detected as bad just because of electrical interference. If "pixel refresh" then isn't removing previously stored bad pixels, the camera would ignore more and more pixels every time this option is selected.

You might want to read more about "Pixel Mapping". Some cameras (olympus (http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?p=45081#post45081)) has options for that available in the user menus, and google knows a little about re-mapping (google search (http://www.google.se/search?hl=en&q=camera+service+%22Pixel+Mapping%22+%22re-mapping%22)) of cameras as well.


How could I find the damage it may have caused- any clue so I can watch for it close.

I can only imagine three things needed to check the CCD (with camera at max resolution and TIFF as file format):

Check for dead and stuck pixels - just photograph a white and a black card in decent light. Then look at the images at 100% magnification in an image editor while browsing for single pixels with significantly different values. If you find any, write down their positions and redo the tests, to make sure it's not just normal noise.
Check for hot pixels - close the lens cap and take an eight second exposure, check if the same pixels always lights up. The FZ20 automatically compensates for hot pixels, so they shouldn't be more than some noise in this kind of image.
Check whether the camera ignores some pixels, interpolating them from the neighbours - don't really know how to do this, but maybe photographing something with a lot of texture, and looking for "blurry sections" could be possible. But since the pixels that the camera ignores are interpolated, I think it's hard if not impossible to detect this, and hence not a problem for you either.

[andshoot]

Thanks Simon for your extensive reply. Very informative.

I came across this test at http://www.starzen.com/imaging/deadpixeltest.htm
My camera came out perfect. Hope it will last :rolleyes:

[WildWinds]

I have a feeling that panasonic uses a card to do the 'pixel refresh' test that the camera is designed to work with during the test, probably gray. So they would have a studio to fix dead pixels, unless it was an extreme (white, black, red?) color when you did the pixel refresh I don't think it would turn off a lot of your pixels. The one thing about the test that may be flawed is that the computer may no longer classify the dead pixels as dead pixels after the test (to avoid confusions) I hope you get everything worked out ok.

If anything, just take a hammer after the camera and make them replace it ;)

[andshoot]

As I want to update everything this issue is little old but now I can sit back and write. The newest problem I had with the same camera was i was loosing the clock setup every time I remove the battery. As usual took it for repair but this time it took them 30 days to order a replacement lithium battery for my camera (sounds funny ya ) after more than a month with no camera to use it came back to me 2 days back fixed. Now I am out of my 90 day labour warranty so if find anymore problems its all mine. I even feel they did it on purpose so they keep a pain in their back off...
My last request for replacement was rejected because I had got the camera repaired at the first time. ( I get all sort of explanation why they cannot replace my camera) This time I am approaching my credit card stating I am not happy with the product waiting to see how they can help me.


So In a nut shell The camera is greate BUT if it breaks you have no luck getting it replaced even if its 2 weeks old. Best of luck for all the Panasonic prospective buyers