PDA

View Full Version : D70 and MF Lenses



Rhys
07-13-2004, 10:40 AM
Has anybody a link for which lenses can be used with the D70 and which can't. The search engine on the Nikon site seem to be slightly less useful than a chocolate teapot on this matter.

D70FAN
07-13-2004, 04:21 PM
From Steves Review:

Nikon D70 Specifications

Type of Camera Interchangeable lens digital SLR camera
Nikon F mount Compatible Lenses

1. DX Nikkor: All functions supported;

2. Type G- or D-AF Nikkor: All functions supported;

3. Micro Nikkor 85mm F2.8D: All functions supported except some exposure modes;

4. Other AF Nikkor (excluding lenses for F3AF): All functions supported except 3D Color Matrix Metering, i-TTL balanced Fill-Flash for digital SLR;

5. AI-P Nikkor: All functions supported except 3D Color Matrix Metering, i-TTL balanced Fill-Flash for digital SLR and autofocus;

6. Non-CPU: Can be used in exposure mode M, but exposure meter does not function; electronic range finder can be used if maximum aperture is f/5.6 or faster.

7. IX Nikkor Lenses cannot be used.

I thought you were looking at the dark side...

Rhys
07-13-2004, 06:09 PM
I'm looking at both sides :)

Actually I'm even looking at the Canon S1 - primarily because it seems to do everything (except for low light photography).

I have a shed load of AI lenses so I figure , looking at the description there, that I'll have to use manual only mode, without a light meter too. That's a bit of a pain!

Of course, i can keep them for 35mm photography (if I ever do any again) and use an all-in-one digital.

Actually, the S1 is most interesting because it does pretty good videos and my girl and I want some videos with sound of our tour around Wales together.

D70FAN
07-13-2004, 10:02 PM
So look at these for now:

http://d70fan.smugmug.com/

Not great, but some of my favorites...

Rhys
07-14-2004, 10:32 AM
So look at these for now:

http://d70fan.smugmug.com/

Not great, but some of my favorites...

From the horse's mouth:

The D70 needs electronic contacts on the lens with which to communicate and meter. Manual lenses (at least 99.9% of them)do not have these contacts and therefore the camera would be unable to communicate with such lenses. You would therefore be able to use the camera in manual mode only and would have to use an external light meter to ascertain the correct exposure. YOu would obviously also not get TTL flash exposure.

So, it seems even shutter and aperture priority won't work, nor will metering. It sounds as though the D70 really is badly designed.

Ray Schnoor
07-14-2004, 11:21 AM
It has been so long since I have used film, at least 5-6 years, that I am not familiar with any of the current film SLR cameras. If you put a manual lens on, say, an F5, does the metering, shutter priority or aperture priority modes work. I'm guessing that they don't, but I may be mistaken, and if they don't, why does that make the D70 more poorly designed than any other SLR that uses the new CPU-type lenses?

Rhys
07-14-2004, 12:27 PM
It has been so long since I have used film, at least 5-6 years, that I am not familiar with any of the current film SLR cameras. If you put a manual lens on, say, an F5, does the metering, shutter priority or aperture priority modes work. I'm guessing that they don't, but I may be mistaken, and if they don't, why does that make the D70 more poorly designed than any other SLR that uses the new CPU-type lenses?

I don't know about the F5 but the F4 would take any of the previous Nikon lenses except the Nikkor-Qs. I know nothing about the F5 though. Heck, even the FM and FM2 would take Q lenses! Nikon used to price itself on backward compatibility and many Canon customers went over to Nikon when Canon decided to have a totally new lens mount and abandon its manual focussing customers. Then, Canon's customers were justifiably annoyed. Now Nikon's thumbing its corporate nose at its MF customers I can see many will go for Canon dSLRs, not just because Nikon's just annoyed them but also because Canon stuff is cheaper.

Ray Schnoor
07-14-2004, 01:27 PM
I don't know about the F5 but the F4 would take any of the previous Nikon lenses except the Nikkor-Qs.Does this mean that all of the F4 automatic features work with these lenses, or do you have to be in full manual mode? I have 2 older manual Nikon lenses 55mm Micro-NIKKOR and 24 mm NIKKOR that are both at least 20 yrs old. They both work on the D70, but the D70 has to be in the full manual mode.

lenses

http://rschnoor.smugmug.com/photos/6142259-S.jpg

taken with 24mm NIKKOR

http://rschnoor.smugmug.com/photos/6142257-S.jpg

taken with 55mm micro-NIKKOR

http://rschnoor.smugmug.com/photos/6142258-S.jpg

Rhys
07-14-2004, 02:00 PM
Does this mean that all of the F4 automatic features work with these lenses, or do you have to be in full manual mode? I have 2 older manual Nikon lenses 55mm Micro-NIKKOR and 24 mm NIKKOR that are both at least 20 yrs old. They both work on the D70, but the D70 has to be in the full manual mode.


I'm not sure. Canon's a/f lenses are all intercompatible. Nikon's lenses are a mish-mash with some working and others not.

I gather that none of my lenses will work with anything other than an unmetered full-manual mode, from what the woman at Nikon said to me (enclosed previously).

Basically, it puts me right off Nikon. That and the crazy enel1 battery.

D70FAN
07-14-2004, 02:20 PM
I'm not sure. Canon's a/f lenses are all intercompatible. Nikon's lenses are a mish-mash with some working and others not.

I gather that none of my lenses will work with anything other than an unmetered full-manual mode, from what the woman at Nikon said to me (enclosed previously).

Basically, it puts me right off Nikon. That and the crazy enel1 battery.

If your talking D70 then it's an EN-EL3 battery, and you won't find a dSLR that uses non-proprietary batteries. Additionally, you only need 1 spare as the camera can take 400-600 shots on a charge, and you can get them for around $20 on e-bay. My Maha C204 and 4-2200mAh AA NiMH's cost more than that.

I'm pretty sure Canon has similar limitations for older non-CPU and non-AF lenses. If the lens isn't "wired" for the function then it's not available.

I'm equally sure Nikon will somehow manage to get over your critique, and Canon is likely celebrating your "near-decision".

Rhys
07-14-2004, 02:28 PM
If your talking D70 then it's an EN-EL3 battery, and you won't find a dSLR that uses non-proprietary batteries. Additionally, you only need 1 spare as the camera can take 400-600 shots on a charge, and you can get them for around $20 on e-bay. My Maha C204 and 4-2200mAh AA NiMH's cost more than that.

I'm pretty sure Canon has similar limitations for older non-CPU and non-AF lenses. If the lens isn't "wired" for the function then it's not available.

I'm equally sure Nikon will somehow manage to get over your critique, and Canon is likely celebrating your "near-decision".

I'm not certain but didn't the Fuji S1,2,3 take AA batteries?

Canon's lenses will all work with Canon digital except from the older MF lenses which won't even fit.

Ray Schnoor
07-14-2004, 02:38 PM
This is from the D70 specs


DX Nikkor: All functions supported;
Type G- or D-AF Nikkor: All functions supported;
Micro Nikkor 85mm F2.8D: All functions supported except some exposure modes;
Other AF Nikkor (excluding lenses for F3AF): All functions supported except 3D Color Matrix Metering, i-TTL balanced Fill-Flash for digital SLR;
AI-P Nikkor: All functions supported except 3D Color Matrix Metering, i-TTL balanced Fill-Flash for digital SLR and autofocus;
Non-CPU: Can be used in exposure mode M, but exposure meter does not function; electronic range finder can be used if maximum aperture is f/5.6 or faster.
IX Nikkor Lenses cannot be used.
It looks like the only lenses you can't use are IX Nikkor.

Rhys
07-14-2004, 02:49 PM
Non-CPU: Can be used in exposure mode M, but exposure meter does not function; electronic range finder can be used if maximum aperture is f/5.6 or faster.


That's the whole point though. If the exposure meter does not function and you must use a hand-held light meter then the camera is well nigh useless. I know for a fact that all my lenses are CPU free because they date back to before 1990. For me therefore, the D70 would mean buying a whole range of new lenses. Why should I do that when Canon's lenses and cameras as just as good but cheaper too.

This is a quotation from the usenet:

There is a lengthy list of big-name pros who've switched from Nikon to Canon
the past 10 years in the nature photography field (often for the super
telephoto IS lenses) and so far as I know almost no big-name guys who switched
the other way recently. So you are in good company, though their reasons for
switching were different than yours. Two recent examples are well-known bird
photographer Tom Vezo, who dumped two F5's, a 600 f/4, a 300 f/2.8 and
miscellaneous other Nikon gear after 30 years of Nikon-only photography to
switch to Canon, claiming the autofocus on the Canon's was much better, or
National Geographic ace Jim Brandenburg, who got the digital bug but was not
satisfied with the pixel count on the Nikon dSLR's and made the switch so he
could use the 11 Mpixel Canon 1Ds.

Looks like Nikon's lost the plot somewhere.

D70FAN
07-14-2004, 02:56 PM
I'm not certain but didn't the Fuji S1,2,3 take AA batteries?


You are correct, and I stand corrected.

Oddly, I never think of Fuji when considering a camera, of any kind, and even less so when thinking dSLR. Why is that? I always leave Olympus dSLR's off of the short list as well. Se la vie.

Rhys
07-14-2004, 03:08 PM
Oddly, I never think of Fuji when considering a camera, of any kind, and even less so when thinking dSLR. Why is that? I always leave Olympus dSLR's off of the short list as well. Se la vie.

I handled the FZ10, the S602 and the S602 replacement (whose number I cannot recall) as well as the S1.

The Fujis struck me as very good cameras. The only thing I disliked about the Fuji was their adherance to the XD card. The S602 takes both SM and CF the replacement takes CF and XD. I held them and they felt robust and well worth the money. I did feel the hand grips were a little too big though. On the whole, I think Fuji's doing a better job with the superzooms than they are with their cheaper digital compacts.

PS. It's c'est la vie :)

D70FAN
07-14-2004, 04:46 PM
Looks like Nikon's lost the plot somewhere.


I'm not sure that Usenet is a good source for what's going on in the professional photography ranks, but even according to the professional photography sites, Canon has won (bought?) some impressive converts to the 1Ds. Arguably, the best pro dSLR on the market. And for $7500 it darned well should be.

This does not equate to a superior offering in MY price range, although the 10D was a close runner-up when the time came to put my money down. The dReb was also in the running until I actually spent some time with it.

Don't get me wrong, as I recommend the 300D as an alternative to those wanting to buy the "8MP junk" currently being offered in the consumer ranks. But there are enough major differences to warrant buying the D70.

To conclude:

1. I know it's C'est la vie (earlier post). Consider my spelling a salute to the French.

2. For $7500 Canon should have the best damn dSLR in the known universe.

3. The D70 is right up there with the best consumer dSLRs in the world. Proven out buy the fact that they are shipping 90,000+ per month, and substantially impacting Canon dReb sales. I'd say that's tit-for-tat.

4. You need to quit reading reviews, get out there, and start using some of the cameras you speculate are inferior.

Jake Conner
07-14-2004, 06:42 PM
Actually, Fuji gets better the farther up the format line you go: from the junky compacts, to the nice-for-the-money S7000, to the very-nice-if-slightly-overpriced S series SLRs (the SCCD has a lot more benefit with a big chip) to some of the nicest Medium Format stuff in the world: Nice, all in one 645AF zoom rangefinders, the 680 and 617 systems, lenses for the new Hassy H system, 44MP SCCD backs, and some verrrrrry nice large format Fujinons.

Jake

Rhys
07-14-2004, 08:28 PM
Actually, Fuji gets better the farther up the format line you go: from the junky compacts, to the nice-for-the-money S7000, to the very-nice-if-slightly-overpriced S series SLRs (the SCCD has a lot more benefit with a big chip) to some of the nicest Medium Format stuff in the world: Nice, all in one 645AF zoom rangefinders, the 680 and 617 systems, lenses for the new Hassy H system, 44MP SCCD backs, and some verrrrrry nice large format Fujinons.

Jake

Hmm. The word on the street is that the S2/S3 play the same trick as the D70/D100 - they will take a picture through the lenses but exposure metering won't work. This seems to me to be a major defect in both systems. Again, I come to the question: why should anybody buy a camera that costs a lot and is in all practicality incompatible with their existing lenses when it means they also have to buy lenses - especially when a Canon D300 with a zoom lens costs less than a D70 body only?

Puzzling and I'd like to get my mitts on a D70, D300 and an S2.

Rhys
07-15-2004, 06:49 AM
I just completed a dialogue with Nikon about the compatibility of AI lenses to the D70/100/1/2 etc. It seems that on the D70/D100, use of the meter etc has been deliberately crippled in a cynical ploy to force people to buy the lenses Nikon wants to sell. Why else would they maintain pro compatibility and leave the amateurs out in the cold. It's a ploy that's backfired as far as I'm concerned as I'm now not going to buy a dSLR from them. When I do buy a dSLR I shall go for a Canon - unless Nikon brings out compatibility in a later cheaper dSLR.



Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support
center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

Subject
---------------------------------------------------------------
Lens compatibility


Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Melanie Stanton) - 15/07/2004 07:26 AM
Sorry, to make the D70 able to communicate with lenses which do not have electronic contacts would have pushed the price up and out of the range we were producing it for. The only digital SLR which are able to communicate with such lenses are the flagship, professional range - the D1/D1H/D1X and D2H.
Generally, Nikon have a much greater degree of compatibility with older accessories and products than other manufacturers, but in this case we felt we had to take this route as most user of the D70 do not own, or do not want to use, manual focus lenses and even those that do do not want to pay more for the camera to do so.
Again, sorry you are unhappy with this.



Customer (Rhys) - 14/07/2004 10:13 PM
Ok. So my existing AI lenses won't work with the D70, rendering the D70 about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

What other Nikon digital cameras will take the MF lenses I own and use them in AP, SP and Program modes?

I have a feeling that if I'm faced with buying a whole range of AF lenses and a dSLR that I'm going to find Canon is probably cheaper and lighter.




Response (Melanie Stanton) - 14/07/2004 07:43 AM
The D70 needs electronic contacts on the lens with which to communicate and meter. Manual lenses (at least 99.9% of them)do not have these contacts and therefore the camera would be unable to communicate with such lenses. You would therefore be able to use the camera in manual mode only and would have to use an external light meter to ascertain the correct exposure. YOu would obviously also not get TTL flash exposure.





Customer (Rhys) - 13/07/2004 04:50 PM
I have a selection of lenses which I've been using with my Nikon FMs. I'm interested in going digital. I realise I can't make a manual-focus lens work as autofocus now have any desire to. I would like to know whether I can use the following lenses with the D70 and which of the D70's features will/won't be available.

The lenses in question are:
35mm f2.5 sn 552xxx
50mm f1.8 sn 4336xxx
85mm f2 sn 228xxx
200mm f4 sn 820xxx

I also have extension tubes, teleconverter, two Tamron lenses with AD2 mounts.

Everything's got automatic indexing. Some lenses have rabbit-ears in addition to the AI.

D70FAN
07-16-2004, 05:24 AM
Thanks for the refrain. I will do likewise.

Decided to pull the message as a waste of time, and verbage. And I should know by now that most of it would go unheeded anyway.

Time to go out and take some pictures. Heading up to Oregon for a couple of days. :D