FZ-30 noise

[Mailman]

Just how noisy is FZ-30 I had my first look the other day.

Mailman

[genece]

In my opinion noise is not a factor.
Properly exposed photos show little if any noise

here are a buch of photos make up your own mind...if they had NR applied they are marked NR,
http://imageevent.com/grc6/fontsize3fz30font;jsessionid=xyfqri0um3.tiger_s

[coldrain]

In my opinion noise is not a factor.
Properly exposed photos show little if any noise

here are a buch of photos make up your own mind...if they had NR applied they are marked NR,
http://imageevent.com/grc6/fontsize3fz30font;jsessionid=xyfqri0um3.tiger_s
The Fz30's noise is no factor? It is only the NOISIEST of UZ cameras. No other has the same amount of noise ath ISO 50/80/100. That is how noisy it is.

And to then show pictures on a website that have a resolution of about 640x480 pixels to show you don't have a noise problem is not fair, what on earth can you see about the quality of a 8 megapixel camera with a 0.3 mpixel sample?

Here are some real 8mp photos where you can see just how noisy the FZ30 is, and where you can better determine if the FZ30 is the camera for you or not.

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_fz30-review/P1000137.JPG
(ISO 80)

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_fz30-review/P1000128.JPG
(ISO 80)

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_fz30-review/P1000174.JPG
(ISO 200)

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_fz30-review/P1000148.JPG
(ISO 200)

[genece]

Coldrain you crack me up if you do not like the camera do not buy it all I did with these photos was resize them to a normal viewing size and the noise is gone. These are 2 of the photos you put up.

[genece]

And the ISO200 one

also I printed this photo at 8.5 X 11 ( as large as I can print ) no noise!

[coldrain]

Coldrain you crack me up if you do not like the camera do not buy it all I did with these photos was resize them to a normal viewing size and the noise is gone. These are 2 of the photos you put up.
Great that you only need less than 1 mpixel photos, genece.

Some people need 8mpixel though (that is why they consider an FZ30 in the first place). And then resizing for a webpage just does not cut it.

That you can not have anyone saying the FZ30 is noisy (it is a well documented fact, it in fact is the noisiest UZ) is your problem. If someone on here asks what the noise of the FZ30 is about, I will keep explaining and showing, and I have no intention of buying an FZ30 (or other noisy cameras).

I have a Canon EOS 350D and at times I want to crop a photo, for screen use. Then the noise does show up, doesn't it. I also probably have other printing needs than you... I at times need to print a photo in large format and then noise and oversharpening and noise reduction artifacts with show up. So then the FZ30 is useless. It just is a very noisy camera, and if your needs are just small prints or less than 1mpixel resized photos for internet I am sure you can be very happy with your FZ30.

Funny though how time and time again you incorrectly say the Fuji S-9000 lacks detail (it does not, it just does not overprocess images like the FZ30 does) when you seem to only care about small prints and resized to under 1mp photos. Who needs detail when you resize so extreme? Any 3mp camera can show more detail than what is needed in your resized pics.

[coldrain]

And the ISO200 one

also I printed this photo at 8.5 X 11 ( as large as I can print ) no noise!
NO noise??? You even see it on the chair and on the guys face when you have resized the photo so dramatically! A lot of chroma noise. You see the blue-ish purple-ish dots? THAT is noise. From the FZ30. At ISO 200. When you resized from 8mp to under 1mp. Not something to strive for IMHO.

[genece]

You use the 8mp when you print but there is no way to use 8mp on a monitor.
If you know how to print ..print the photo there is no noise..
There is no point in viewing a photo over full screen on a monitor or TV and that is the size I displayed.


I really think you should spend your time in a more constructive manner but I guess thats up to you.

Just for the record I love the photos from the Fz30 and a 8 X 10 will compare very favorably to a photo printed from a 350 rebel. Thats the part you can not stand.

[coldrain]

Haha, fine... I guess you have a lot of experience with an EOS 350D. And you still did not see that chroma noise? On the down sized photo? And you still never want to crop pictures?

Oh well, it is useless to try and make you or John Reed see what everyone sees when you just want to be convinced that the FZ30 is the best camera without any drawbacks.

The noise is there, and for a lot of people it can be very disturbing in a number of ways. That for some it is fine, that is wonderful.

[Mike63]

Coldrain, you must be a Canon sales person. Most everyone will admit that a dslr has less noise than the Pan cams, but where do we draw the line. I looked up the Canon that is in your signature out of curiosity and noticed that the body only with no lens was 665.00 after rebate. Thats way out of my price range considering what I can do with my FZ20 with no extra lenses. My FZ blows everybodys digital cameras in my large family away without breaking a sweat and it certainly beats my old Sony Mavica and floppy disks. I noticed that the lobby image was taken at ISO-200 a known weak spot, however the image looked darn good at normal view screen size on my 19" LCD. Again where do we draw the line? I will admit the Pana's have noise, even the pic's that I took today at my family Christmas get together have noise ( it was overcast and drizziling), but everyone who saw my pics said they looked great. :)

[jcon]

Mike, I agree the Z20 is a great camera, but I believe the discussion was about the Z30, which in my opinion does have noise. I take nothing away from the camera but it has noise nonetheless, moreso than the Z20. Both are great cameras. Due to low light capability I needed to upgrade to a Nikon D50, which isnt all that expensive! I dont see the need to attack each other for having different preferences or even different needs, people have different tastes and views, cant fault others for that. People come here for advice, not to see others argueing, unless its done in a respectful way. Ok, I am off my high horse now:D

[Singh]

Well said jcon.
I dont see the need to attack each other for having different preferences or even different needs, people have different tastes and views, cant fault others for that. People come here for advice, not to see others argueing, unless its done in a respectful way. Ok, I am off my high horse now:D

Noise is some what a personal preference also. A particular level of noise might not be a problem for some one but the same level of noise may be bit too much for the other person. Also the objection-ability of noise in picture depends on the type of picture taken (for example the noise at ISO 200 of my FZ20 is acceptable for me when I am shooting landscapes, but for bird or other wild life photography even the ISO 80 is too noisy for my taste). Also another problem that I face is the shallow dynamic range of my fz20 which again can be a personal preference.

Mailman, my recommendation is to take a look at some of the sample shots (the kind of pictures you take) from the FZ30. If the noise is acceptable to you go for it. Better if you can take some a test photos from a store your self.

[coldrain]

Coldrain, you must be a Canon sales person. Most everyone will admit that a dslr has less noise than the Pan cams, but where do we draw the line. I looked up the Canon that is in your signature out of curiosity and noticed that the body only with no lens was 665.00 after rebate. Thats way out of my price range considering what I can do with my FZ20 with no extra lenses. My FZ blows everybodys digital cameras in my large family away without breaking a sweat and it certainly beats my old Sony Mavica and floppy disks. I noticed that the lobby image was taken at ISO-200 a known weak spot, however the image looked darn good at normal view screen size on my 19" LCD. Again where do we draw the line? I will admit the Pana's have noise, even the pic's that I took today at my family Christmas get together have noise ( it was overcast and drizziling), but everyone who saw my pics said they looked great. :)
I never said that you can not have any good pictures from an FZ30, I just dispute that there is no noise issue!!! And if you actually READ this thread, you will notice I did not bring up the Canon EOS 350D but genece did. I merely reacted to him. I said that the FZ30 is the noisiest of all ultra zoom cameras. I did also note that the lobby photo is at ISO 200, and I noted which were at ISO 80. I noted that it is fine when you downsize to under 1MP like genece did, but not when you print out large of crop a photo. And that even when you downsize the lobby photo THAT much, you still see noise artifacts.

And if anyone ever bothers to read my posts, they would notice I recommend all kinds of cameras and camera makes, it depends on the persons wishes and ideas what cameras I recommend (unlike some people who recommend for instance an FZ30 to everyone). Like I recommended the FZ20 to a collegue of mine who was considering an EOS 300D (I pointed out to him the cost factor of lenses :p).

[genece]

If you download any of the photos you posted and let windows display them at the best fit size which is the way everyone should view photos, you can view them full screen with another program , either way noise is not there on a properly exposed photo, or in a 8X10 print, and either of those 2 ways is the way 99% of the photos are viewed.
So its like a tree falling in the woods if you can not see the noise in normal viewing, is it there?
When you have to enlarge the photo to see the noise or artifacts what is the point.....I am sure it bothers you, but believe me it does not bother most of us.
Why do you have to make a career out of trying to convince people they should not have a FZ30, there are just as many people could harp on you that you should have a 20D( if you hate noise) or a Nikon.
I believe you should give it a rest and enjoy your camera and leave people like me enjoy ours.
By the way I never had a 350 but I did have a 300...which is a poor excuse for a dslr. The pictures were not bad in my opinion but the camera was another story.
The FZ30 is the best ultrazoom available and the 350 is not the best DSLR.
And once again I see no noise in most photos I have taken when viewed or printed at a normal size.

and that is what we do ...view them on a monitor ..share them on the web or print them at sizes up to 8 X 10.

[coldrain]

genece, it is NOT about ME enjoying my camera, nor about YOU not minding noise.
It is about people on here coming for advice, and if you are partial to the FZ30 is your decision. In my opinion (and the opinion of others) the FZ30 is noisy, and people looking for advice on different cameras have a right to hear that opinion, not just a Panasonic fan rave.

Like I said before, I advice and recommend many different cameras and I do not try to defend my EOS 350D is the best and only choice in its class. And in an UZ case I might recommend an S2 IS to someone, or an H1, or a Fuji S5200 or S9000, or a Panasonic FZ20, juts depending on their wishes and uses. It is NOT about me and my camera, but about people looking for advice. And the FZ30 just happens to be very noisy, no matter how you try to turn it.

And noise just happens to be never liked and it also is recognized as to being important.... that you do not find it a problem, is FINE and that you tell people you do not find it a problem is also fine, just do not always deny that it is there. And let others who do mind it air their opinion.

[grif]

Hi there !
I have a FZ30 by 2 weeks. First shots was just for test in auto mode to see the difference between my old HP935 and FZ30. Conditions: indoor not soo good light when ussualy the HP935 failing with a smile = blurry or a killer flash (overexposed). FZ30 was shoking ...noise all over the photo. :eek: Next step was to dowwnload a noise reduction software ! ;) Ok ...after 2 weeks of playing with FZ30 settings I can get decent photos for the same conditions (indoor, low light) but no auto mode !!! manual or AE mode :D

now...the noise still there and that noise reduction software is very handy ...:D
this is the reality !!

Of course ... indoor or outdoor with good light the FZ30 is wonderful !!

I think the ideea is to be able to get good photo in rough conditions not in perfect condition when any camera (for example the old HP935) can get decent photos.

[genece]

Here is a thread to follow and pretty well explains why some think the FZ30 has more noise than the FZ20...which it does not.
It also relates to why someone comming from a 2 or 3 mp camera sees more noise...but it has nothing to do with why a 350XT has less noise.

I came across this following the new Nikon D200 which I have some interest in. As their VR lenses seem to be amazing (at least the ones that would interest me.) But thats maybe a long way down the road ...too much money.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=16322293

[BonjiB]

Let me say something that i think hasn't been said yet. The panasonic fz30 is a CONSUMER camera... the digital rebel is a PROFESSIONAL camera. The results come out accordingly. The more you spend the better the image quality. However, for us hardcore fz30 advocates i must say having the extensive feature set on the fz30 for 500 bucks beats the hell out of spending thousands for a comparably equipped dslr. Yes, i would LOVE a dslr with the zoom range, image stabilization and quality lens that my fz30 has and the large sensor that it does not but i can't afford it. Yes the panasonic is a noisy camera. ALL consumer cameras are. It's the nature of the sensors used in them. Now, if you want a consumer camera that has less noise, yes, you can do better than the fz30. If you want a superzoom that will do better, in my opinion, no, you will not find one. The s9000 is a close match but lacks image stabilization and for a superzoom that's a must for ME. I emphasize ME because some people might have rock solid hands or always shoot tripod/monopot and not NEED image stabilization. I do. Just keep in mind what YOU are using the camera for. If you will not be making prints over say 8x10 with the occasional 14x19 the noise is virtually a non issue. I've printed iso 200 stuff straight out of my camera (pictbridge) at 8x10 and it looked FINE (that photo is in a frame now, not being viewed under a microscope.) If i were to crop into that substancially or print it out 20x30 yeah it would suck. Also, if i were selling it i might want more than an fz30. If you need more professional quality prints/results.... get a dslr, that's what they are for. I'm tired of the fz30 being compared to dslrs, it's simply not one. Compare it to OTHER consumer cameras or at least other superzooms then you won't be so disappointed with it.

[StanStan]

I like this thread because REAL opinions are posted. If everyone was really "considerate", the discussion would be so sanitized it would be impossible to understand anyone's true thoughts.
Something akin to a politician talking in front of a diverse group. They have the ability to talk for an hour and when they are done I ask myself "What in the world did they say and what point were they making"

The max I print out is 8x10 and FZ20 images print very nicely on my old Lexmark with refilled cartridges. BTW I'm looking for an ip5000 Canon. Also, I do not look at any print with a loupe to see noise. Nor do I put my nose against the picture either. I usually look at my 8x10's from about 2 feet away and again they look fine to me. Most of my viewing is on a aging 27" CRT television.

I also believe all the better cameras will take excellent pictures. I bought the FZ30 because of the bells and whistles it has. Yes, I know I would like a faster lens on it but of what increase in weight of glass.

Mounted my TCON 17 on the '30 and am waiting for some sun.

Stan

[jcon]

I dont remember the Z30 being compared to an SLR in this thread by the SLR owner, I think it was the Z30 owner that brought up the SLR. The thread was started to get opinions on noise in the Z30, and its undeniable that there is noise, bottom line, thats all that was asked. Now if the poster doesnt mind, thats his or her option.

Yes, constructive talk is wonderful, but to go off on each other doesnt help, just angers people and doesnt help the main cause. To compare an SLR to the Z30 isnt fair, but to say the Z30 isnt a noisy camera, is blind and blatently false. if I had to pick between the Z20 and the Z30, I would go for the Z20 hands down. The Z20 has less noise for me. People like to stand up for their equipment, I get that, my fire truck is more red than yours, I get that. Look at sample shots in all settings, print them, on your own computer and see what you think, if you are happy with the print, then by all means go buy it, if youre not, look elsewhere for your camera. Some people are bias and that can cloud suggestions and help for people who come here for that.

Just to show that you can get a decent DSLR set up for a fairly cheap price. I will be the owner of a Nikon D50, Nikon 80-200mm 2.8 (or Sigma 70-200mm 2.8) for roughly a grand. That is not bad at all. I know it doesnt have the same reach but its good enough for me. IS, VR or whatever you want to call it, isnt as needed with DSLR because you can shoot at faster speeds because of the ISO capability. I will also add a Nikon 50mm 1.8 for portraits at less than $100. So if you ask me, thats not that high of a entry price!

Now, back to the main posters question(if your still around:o ) The Z30 is noisy, but like I said print some samples for yourself and see if its to your liking, only YOU can determin what YOU want. Not someone thats a proud owner of the camera or vice versa.

[genece]

And in my opinion it is not noisey, and definately no noisier than the FZ20, once again its how you view the photo....Full screen its fine and printed its fine what else matters?

And a D50 at 300mm on the tele end and 75mm on the WA end hardly covers the range of the FZ30. Not to mention the IS. You can add another $1000.00 for that.

[jcon]

I mentioned that my lens wouldnt cover as much zoom as the Z30.. I also mentioned that IS isnt AS needed in DSLR because of the ISO ability. For what I need the camera for, it will work just fine.

[dev]

I think my fz20 will do just fine till the next generation of chips (like the "Rochester") comes out, at which time the current DSLRs will make nice doorstops.

[BonjiB]

Well i don't think because i own an fz30 my judgement is clouded. I chose to purchase the fz30 after reviewing all possible options to me. So i'm just expressing what i think is the best superzoom. I do argue for the fz30 over the 20 though. I've owned both and i can say i'm much happier with the results/prints from the 30 over the 20. It has more detail and crisper images. The noise level is about the same on both, the fz30 just "shows" it more because of the higher megapixels. If you resize an 8 megapixel fz30 image down to 5 megapixels THEN compare to the fz20 you'll find that the fz30 image has much more detail and the noise levels are about the same. That might not be the MOST accurate way to compare the two BUT i know when you PRINT (which is what photography is all about) the images are resized down to the size of the print your making and the more detail you have backing that up the better off you'll be. But back to the main topic. It is undenyable that the fz30 is a noisy camera. Whether that matters to you or not is up to you. My iso 400 images usually need some neat image to make them look pretty. I'm pleased with it's iso 200 results all the way up to 8x10 prints straight out of the camera. Like i said before, i don't sell my pictures nor look at them 4 inches from my face so it's a non-issue for me. Most of my shots are at 80 or 100 anyways. I slap on my sunpak 383 not only to get more light onto my subjects but to bounce the light off stuff so my pictures don't look like they came from a cheap disposable wal-mart camera. The sunpak lets me shoot at lower iso's in even the most challenging situations. After using it i wouldn't really even consider using the built in flash for anything if i didn't have to.

[Mailman]

I ask the quesition about noise and FZ-30. Everyone compares it with a DSLR type camera but I am not interested in carrying bag full of lenses around plus the cost of DSLR down under are very exspenstive so that is why I am interested in the FZ-30 because of the long zoom.

Thanks
Keith

[jcon]

Mailman, I simply mentioned me upgrading to DSLR because the noise from the Z20 in low light was a major problem for me. The same goes for the Z30, low light is not its strong suit. That was your question, right? From the outdoor shots I have seen its very sharp. I guess it all depends on what you will primarily be using the camera for? Only you can decide what you like and dont like, find some sample shots from the Z30 and print them(the one inside the hotel on this thread is pretty noisy), and make your own judgement. What may be too noisy for me, may not be noisy at all to you. If you are simply looking for an all in one zoom, the Z20 or the Z30 are good choices, just know they both have downfalls(low light). Good luck with your decision!

[paul_kelly]

Mailman,

It really depends on what you intend to spend most time taking pictures of. If you are always going to be shooting in well lit conditions where you can keep the ISO down to 100 or below and the noise will be barely noticeable. It becomes much more noticeable if you are shooting in conditions where you have to set the ISO to anything higher - low light, high speed/action, etc. For example, I spend a lot of my time taking photographs of live bands, where the lights are often low and flash isn't allowed. To get a decent exposure I would have to shoot at 400, resulting in images that were incredibly noisy, even when viewed full screen.
For general use the FZ20 and FZ30 are great cameras, but really think about what you are going to use them for most of the time. If you plan to do any significant amount of low light shooting, or in other conditions where you will need to use higher ISOs, then I would seriously consider saving up and going down the DSLR route.

Paul

[WildWinds]

The problems that I see with this conversation is it is extremely biased. It is being said that the noise on the FZ30 isn't a problem when it might be. Depending entirely on the user. All that was asked was about the FZ30's noise. Now the noise isn't easily seen on a 8X10 print or normal viewing size, so it would be safe to say that noise isn't very much a problem in THIS scenario. However to just say 'The FZ30's noise is not a problem' is absolutely untrue. The FZ30 doesn't have much of a noise problem in the aforementioned scenario but if you wanted to blow that picture up or crop it then it DOES have a noise problem. It simply does have noise issues but the noise may not affect you depending on how you intend to use the camera. It won't have a lot of noise if you print it on 8X10's but it will have a lot of noise if you plan on cropping the image or sizing it to larger images.

Simply the FZ30 does have a noise problem but this may not affect you depending on how you intend to use the camera. It is all up to the user.

[grif]

If you wanna see how noisy is in rough condition = low light check this:
:D
http://www.jtfsquad.com/grifon/fz30/P1010438.JPG

same file filltered :

http://www.jtfsquad.com/grifon/fz30/P1010438_f.jpg

settings: ISO200, Aperture priority.You can check the EXIF.

if anyone can tell me what settings I should use on my FZ30 to get off the noise on this kind of condition (with no ISO 80 = no longer exposure time = no tripod, indoor dim light, nonformal photo = subjects are not standing still ) I 'll be greatfull forever !! :D
Note: I am not interested to print this kind of picture = don't tell me if I gonna print on 4x6 will look ok. The purpose is to look ok on a PC display (19"). Right now to use a noise reduction software is ...a must .

[jcon]

To Paul and WildWIinds, everything that was posted in your 2 posts was already mentioned in my previous post :D as for this thread being bias, I disagree, I cant speak for others, but for myself, I clearly stated the Z30(and Z20 for that matter) are noisy in low light situations and very sharp and excellent cameras in well lit situations and outdoors. Thats bias? Again, its all up to the user, like I said in the previous post, all depends on what youre using it for. Only Mailman can determin if its a noisy camera for him, not us "bias" posters.

Grif, I am not sure about the Z30, but for shots like that(with my Z20) I used my sunpak 383 flash more often than not. I also noticed you shot at f3.5, try 2.8, but I would really suggest the Sunpak so you could bounce the flash off the ceiling. I would also suggest bumping up the shutter speed just a hair, 1/20 hand held can be a bit hard to do for some, without blur. Yours isnt all that blurry however. If youre not printing, try a higher ISO. I know its not desirable with the Z30 due to noise, but if you arent printing, it shouldnt matter that much. Your best bet would be the flash though. Good luck!

[BonjiB]

If you wanna see how noisy is in rough condition = low light check this:
:D
http://www.jtfsquad.com/grifon/fz30/P1010438.JPG

same file filltered :

http://www.jtfsquad.com/grifon/fz30/P1010438_f.jpg

settings: ISO200, Aperture priority.You can check the EXIF.

if anyone can tell me what settings I should use on my FZ30 to get off the noise on this kind of condition (with no ISO 80 = no longer exposure time = no tripod, indoor dim light, nonformal photo = subjects are not standing still ) I 'll be greatfull forever !! :D
Note: I am not interested to print this kind of picture = don't tell me if I gonna print on 4x6 will look ok. The purpose is to look ok on a PC display (19"). Right now to use a noise reduction software is ...a must .

Well if you don't like postprocessing the noise out the in camera noise reduction feature works pretty well. Set it up on high and be done with it. It looks like you went a little overboard on your noise reduction. The noise at iso 200 is finer grain than at 400 so give neat image a try and play with the different settings. You'd be surprised what a big difference to the overall image just a little noise reduction will make. For me though, i don't mind iso 200 noise. It's just not THAT bad. I shot film for years and it reminds me of really fast speed black and white film. I sort of like that effect on some of my images and those that i don't i send it on a trip through neat image. Iso 400 is another beast to tame all together but that's another thread. Just give the in camera noise reduction a try, it does pretty good.

Another suggestion is to get yourself a nice external flash like the sunpak 383. I mean you're already luggin around the beasty camera, what's an extra flash? The sunpak is great cuz it has a killer auto mode that does exceptionally well and you can swivvle the head all different ways so you can bounce the light so it's much more natural looking. You didn't say anything about not wanting to use a flash so i'm throwing that out as a possible suggestion too. I always shoot lowlight with my sunpak unless prohibited. At iso 200 it'll throw the light 40+ feet and light a subject up in pitch black yet still function with grace as close as 4 feet. It's got a magic sensor that tells it how much light to throw. Good luck

[grif]

Thanks a lot guys !
The ideea of using an external flash is very good...but what I found is people are getting annoyed by me when I am using the flash (just the built in). :p after 2-3 shots with the flash into their eyes, they just ask me to stop ...of course next day same people start asking where are the photos (!) :rolleyes: I really like the FZ30's built in flash because I can adjust it to deliver less or more light. ;)

[pixelperfect]

I think this is a Ford vs.Chevy argument. I think that Gene's Lobby picture is really good , considering the size. I would say to you Coldrain, that if I were to look for noise it would probably show up in the lampshades or the gloss of the tile floor, but I don't see any. I think that if each of you are pleased with your own cameras, then everbody's a winner.