Rebel XT or D200?

[wxcloud9xw]

I was planning on buying a Canon Rebel XT with a couple of top prime lenses at the end of the month. But, now I see that the D200 is coming out in December and is very reasonably priced for what your getting. Of course these are two different prices for cameras 800 vs. 1,700 dollars. I guess what I'm thinking is that the D200 might be a better/longer term investment since it offers pro features and performance in a 10.2mp 1.5x crop sensor. The dilemma for me is that I'll only be able to afford a basic zoom or one good prime lens at least for several month before I could afford another lens.

I mainly (95%) of the time shoot outdoor and indoor portrait work, so I have less of a need for zoom lenses and more of a need for good bokeh prime lenses starting out. I often print 8x10s for my important top portrait photos and I would like the idea of having more flexibility for making high quality larger prints with a 10mp sensor.

I'm sure some of you are wondering why not throw in the decision of the Canon 20D? Well, although certainly nice and more professionally built, I don't need 5fps shooting capabilities and I don't see a big enough difference to go for the 20D since the image quality is virtually the same as the Rebel XT allowing me to get more/better lenses at time of purchase.

I would only have to wait an extra month to be able to buy the D200 with a good prime lens. what do you guys think?:confused:

[Rhys]

The 20D has the advantage that it has a 1.3 crop factor. The Nikon has a 1.5 crop factor but Nikon seems stuck on 1.5 for its digital SLRs while Canon is heading toward full-frame thoughout. Personally, I prefer full-frame to cropped cameras.

I don't see much difference between 10mp and 8mp - not enough to be worth paying more for anyway.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/NikonD200/Images/mpcompared.gif

Look at it this way at 300dpi, 8 megapixels gives you 3464 x 2309 pixels or 11inches by 8 (approx).

10 megapixels gives you 3872 x 2581 pixels or 13 x 9 (approx).

That's really not a very great increase even at 300dpi. Now most people will print at 150dpi giving you double the sizes so what's the point in 10mp?

Now let's look at the Canon 1ds Mk2 with 16mp

16mp gives you 4898 x 3265 pixels or 16 x 11 (approx). That's a lot bigger and a lot more worth paying extra for.

I'd get the 8mp XT or even a 6mp Rebel and save for a bigger, badder camera later.

Spend your money on lenses, not on bodies. A good lens will last a lifetime. A camera's good for a couple of years before it's out-dated.

[wxcloud9xw]

20D is 1.6x crop factor...read up on it...the 1d mark 2 is the only 1.3x croped canon. Thats why the Canon EF-S lenses only work on the Rebel, Rebel XT, and 20D (1.6x crop factor in all three)

[coldrain]

Rhys always thinks it is 1.3x... ;)

Anyway, it is indeed a bit strange a choice, between a 350D and a D200.
Compact and light versus big and heavy, expensive vs cheap, weather sealed versus uhm... cheap.

You say you will not really need lenses other than a prime... What in the D200 do you really need that the XT does not have though?
Not the speed (you dont find the speed advantage of the 20D worthwile).

The 20D has other advantages than just the speed though (2 separate wheels for shutter and aperture, and that lovely wheel on the back. And noticably better noise performance above 400 ISO).

As in the better investment, that is debatable. Digital cameras (also DSLR's) age considerably faster than film SLR's, and that will probably continue to be so for a while to come. They also keep coming down in price a lot.

What does that mean according to me? Well, do you see many people with a Nikon D100 who are not looking for something new? Or people with a Canon D60? Or a Fuji Pro 1/2?
Even people with a D70 and 300D you already see looking around for the latest and greatest.
Lets say a camera lasts 3 years that way (before techno lust sets in again).
With the XT being out for almost a year now, that means that you have 2 years to go before it starts to feel "dated". Eventhough the Nikon D200 is higher end, it is very likely that in that sector too advancements will make it outdated in 3 years. But even if you give it 4 years this is still valid.

This means that in case of the XT, $750 will give you 2 years of camera joy (or agony? haha). In the case of the D200, $1700 will give you 3 years. Then what? Then what is left is the lenses you acquired.
The lens system is probably what will determine your next camera body of choice...

This illustrates quite clearly that you are buying yourself into a lens system. And that bodies just slurp up a lot of your spending money. So, maybe it is wise to try and determine which lens system has lenses you would be absolutely happy with, and only then choose teh camera model from eithe Canon or Nikon that you can be comfortable with.

Still the same rules apply for a good photo... In order of importance:
1. The photographer.
2. The lens(es).
3. The camera body.

Beware of the techno lust :eek:

[wxcloud9xw]

well, Nikon has some very nice prime lens reviews at fredmiranda.com they seem higher in rating than the canon primes on the same website. I'm sure both are about equal..Primes seem to be the best for portrait work, accept for the few really expensive pro zoom lenses with small F numbers.

yes, I'm bitten by the techno bug..Im lusting again for the d200. Does it ever stop..nope.

The reason I don't need a pro build quality is the fact that i will be primarily using a tripod most of the time and don't generally run around outside with my camera shooting things free hand.

[TheObiJuan]

haha, do I want a Chevrolet Corvette or a Lamborghini Murcielago....:confused:

Go play with the D200 when you can and decide for yourself. The differences between both cameras are stark.

[wxcloud9xw]

It's all about the performance and image quality first rather than the body or housing for me.

[Rhys]

If the lens is good then the image from a Kodak Brownie will be as good as the image from a Canon Rebel(d300) and as good as the image from a Canon 1dMk2. The lens makes the difference - not the camera. Who cares what mode you use wheher it's manual, auto, shutter priority or aperture priority as long as the photo's good?

Personally, I'd like to see the funky modes taken off dSLRs and the following solely used: Manual, Aperture priority, Shutter priority and a program shift option for both AP and SP.

I say blow your money on lenses. Cameras come and go.

[dallas75287]

20D is 1.6x crop factor...read up on it...the 1d mark 2 is the only 1.3x croped canon. Thats why the Canon EF-S lenses only work on the Rebel, Rebel XT, and 20D (1.6x crop factor in all three)

Is this statement, "Thats why the Canon EF-S lenses only work on the Rebel, Rebel XT, and 20D (1.6x crop factor in all three)", true? Meaning if I buy the lens for the XT, they will be useless in few years if I do decide to buy the 5D?

[wxcloud9xw]

If you buy Canon "EF-S" lenses they will be useless on a 5d or anything other than a 1.6x cropped canon DSLR. This is why I would avoid the EF-S lens system unless you don't plan to upgrade the body for a long time. there are Canon EF "L" quality lenses like the 70-200mm f/4.0 L USM or the 17-40mm f/4 L USM lens for nearly the same price as the EF-S 17-85mm IS USM lens. Then you'll be able to use any of the EF lenses on future Canon DSLR bodies.

[dallas75287]

So the two prime lens , EF 50 f/1.8 and 50 f/1.4, I'm been considering are not EF-S lens, correct?

Thanks for the response.

[wxcloud9xw]

correct....If I get the rebel XT I'm going to get the EF 50mm f/1.4 lens and a EF 35mm

Canon only has one prime EF-S lens and thats the 60mm macro lens.

[Rex914]

I'm personally giving the D200 another thought now although the major strike against it now is in its availibility or lack thereof. Like you, the D200 pretty much forces me to just go with a prime or so to begin with to keep the costs down, but I can still get the necessary nice glass later on (i.e. in the next round of rebates in 6 months).

Have you taken a good look at Nikon's lens system to evaluate its strengths and weaknesses? It's quite similar to Canon, but there are some major areas of divergence. 1) Wide angle is better. 2) Super telephoto tends to lack IS 3) As a whole, Nikon's consumer glass is better than Canon's consumer glass 4) Canon has much more USM coverage as a whole. Even some of Nikon's pro lenses lack AF-S (Nikon equivalent to Canon's ring USM) and many of the primes lack AF-S too. Not a deal breaker, but just something to note.

[wxcloud9xw]

I have only gotten around to looking at the pime lens reviews...all of the Nikon primes in general are rated higher than canons. I'm still considering the rebel xt or the d200. I'm going to wait for a full review of the D200 to come in before I make up my mind. right now I'm 60/40..60% likely to get the rebel xt and 40 for the nikon d200. That may change a lot from now until towards the end of December. We shall see....ofcourse I also though about just getting an expensive L series zoom from canon the EF 24-70mm f/2.8 USM (1,200) and the Rebel xt.... it would come out to the same price as getting the d200 and a good prime lens.

[Rex914]

If you're mostly reading reviews off of FM, the "higher" scores aren't necessarily accurate because there are so few Nikon users compared to Canon users on that site. You'll see perhaps 10 or 20 reviews at most for a lens whereas Canon's key lenses have over 100 reviews a piece. Nikon's lenses are good, but what you see isn't necessarily an accurate depiction of which lenses are the standouts.

[wxcloud9xw]

I guess top review sites like this one and dpreview will get a hold of one first. Shouldn't be too much longer. Somewhere between 15-30th of the month we should see a review of the d200.

What are your thoughts? Does the 8mp vs. 10mp difference matter to you?

[Rex914]

The MP increase is the last thing that's wooing me. What's catching my interest is just about everything else on the camera, namely, the build quality, the superior handling, the brighter and larger VF, the new AF system, the superbly looking and designed menu system, the larger LCD, and the list goes on. The D200 is really a smaller format D2X in disguise at a third of the cost.

But remember that Canon triple rebates can really knock down the cost of the XT and the 20D, making the D200 almost twice as expensive as the 20D ($1700 vs. $950) and three times as expensive as the XT ($1700 vs. $575)! :eek:

If you wait for the reviews, you probably won't have a chance to pick up a D200 until shipment two which is late January at the earliest and February in the worst event. That's quite a long time away. As is, even I can't readily pick up a D200 unless I wait on opening day to order from B&H, the last and only major store that will take orders and ship on launch day. So unless you really want the D200, you might be better off getting the XT or 20D and taking advantage of the rebates while they're still valid. Plus you need a little time to verify that your equipment works and isn't faulty.

[Vich]

Go for the Lamborgini. You'll soon forget what you paid for it and build your lens collections.

Or, compromise and get the 20D + 2 primes. With the triple rebates, it'll work out to not much more than the XT + 2 primes. There's a host of improvmeents the 20D has to offer. But I'd get the D200 before the 20D.

[Rex914]

That's assuming I can order it this week. I have a feeling that once B&H starts taking orders on it, it'll be a mad dash for the 500 or so units (I predict) in stock, and those may be depleted in a matter of a few hours. I'll give it a shot though... I can't help but to liken this to a new video game console launch, only that I don't have to do anything silly like camping outside the store.

[wxcloud9xw]

I really don't think there is going to be a shortage..it is an expensive camera to most...I mean it's not the kind of price that sells like hot cakes.

Honestly if I was going to get the d200 I would have to wait until the end of January anyway.

But I want to read a full review first on it's image quality and how it performs at high ISOs. It does have a high pixel density, which could lead to more noise..so we'll have to see..I have seen some photos taken from the d200 on a japanese website from a photographer. It didn't look like there was any over sharpening or over processing like the d70/s and the d50 do. they had much smoother look to the photos...heres some links to d200 photo posts:http://www.dcfever.com/news/readnews.php?newsID=1018

http://pinoyphotography.org/index.php?showtopic=2459&hl=

This one is a review:eek: ..didnt even check the language yet..:
http://www.e-fotografija.com/artman/publish/article_874.shtml

[Rex914]

I really don't think there is going to be a shortage..it is an expensive camera to most...I mean it's not the kind of price that sells like hot cakes.


You'd be surprised. Nearly the entire US alottment for D200's (a good 10,000-12,000 D200's) is pre-ordered or sold through. Granted some of those pre-orders are going to be dropped, this camera will at the very minium share the same popularity as the 20D when it first came out, and that was also a mad dash. Unlike the 5D, D2X and 1D, this isn't quite a niche camera. :)

[wxcloud9xw]

I'm gonna wait and see..right now the way I look at it as that i can buy a couple of top prime lenses for the Rebel XT, an external flash, and lens hoods and still be the same price as just the d200 body.

[Rhys]

I'm gonna wait and see..right now the way I look at it as that i can buy a couple of top prime lenses for the Rebel XT, an external flash, and lens hoods and still be the same price as just the d200 body.

If you buy secondhand from KEH.com, you'll get more lenses for your money. I buy my lenses from KEH, secondhand. You can get them new from KEH too though. I just figure they're as good as new (those I've bought) but cost 1/3rd less.

[wxcloud9xw]

Thanks for the tip..KEH is actually located an hour from where I live at home in Atlanta, GA..That's where I'm going to trade in my old camera to and probably get the Camera body from possibly. Of course if I did that I'd have to pay tax. :(