Difficulties with my new Fuji F10

[Random]

Perhaps someone here can give me advice...

After researching many different cameras and reading several of the great informative posts on this forum (thanks), I decided to buy the Fuji F10. I wanted a small portable camera that works well in low-light situations, since most of the pictures I take are in the evening or indoors. I've had the camera for a week now, and I must say that I'm a bit disappointed with the low light performance. I tried taking pictures inside a conference lecture hall, or when I went out for dinner, and I could not get clear pictures without the flash. For example, in evening restaurant lighting, the F10 still required an exposure time longer than 1/30 sec at ISO1600.

Thinking that perhaps I was demanding too much of the camera, I went to a camera store and compared the F10 to the Canon SD550 (in admittedly a rather unscientific test). In the same lighting conditions (in the store), with both cameras set to ISO200 and F2.8, the F10 wanted an exposure time of 1/40 second, whereas the Canon SD550 was happy with 1/60 of a second. At several settings I tried, the F10 always wanted to go to higher ISO to achieve the same exposure time (or longer exposure time at the same ISO). I know the F10 can achieve higher ISO with less noise, but I'd rather not have to constantly use the camera at high ISO settings to get the images I want. I've seen some of the images here, and they look much better than mine. What ISO and exposure time settings do you guys generally use to get good images in evening lighting?

Has anyone compared these two cameras side-by-side (Fuji F10 vs. Canon SD550)? Any tips as to how to improve my F10 performance? I'm debating whether to return the F10. The main issue for me is image quality, not price.

-Thanks

[ajay67]

do you compare the photos taken by both cams? if the exposure level seem similar with those settings you mentioned then perhaps, you can use exposure compensation on the fuji to "force" it to use faster speed. i still believe the fuji is a better cam for low light photography

[Random]

Thanks for your reply ajay.

Unfortunately I was unable to compare the photos from both cameras -- I was only playing with the Canon in the store, checking the exposure times it selected. I was hoping perhaps someone here had experience with both. I'll play with my Fuji a bit more and see what kind of indoor pictures I can produce :)

[StanInNY]

Random,

I suggest you go to the photo store and compare the store's Fuji F10 to the store's Canon SD550 and to your F10. That should more conclusively indicate if anything is wrong with your camera.

Putting your report of the in-store comparison aside, you didn't mention what scene modes your camera was set to for the failed evening shots. For example, if you were on Sport mode the camera was upping the shutter speed, which in turn reduced the ability to shoot in low light. Did you specifically use Natural Light mode or Night mode?

I don't have an F10 currently, but I'm considering buying it or the F11, so I've been studying them both.

StanInNY

[Random]

The failed evening shots I was referring to were all taken at the manual setting, ISO at 800 or 1600, with flash suppressed.

Reading through some of the posts over at dpreview, I get the sense that while Fuji accurately rates their ISO settings (compared to higher end cameras), Canon tends to underrate them (there's apparently been extensive discussion on this at dpreview -- apologies if I'm getting this incorrect). For this reason, a Canon set to ISO400 will use a shorter exposure time than a Fuji set to ISO400. Or conversely, to get an exposure time of say 1/30 second requires a slightly higher ISO setting for the Fuji as compared to the Canon. This was my experience as well. On the flip side, the noise level of the Fuji ISO800 is indeed remarkably low, similar or perhaps a bit better than the ISO400 on my previous Canon S30.

The only thing I have to compare the F10 to at the moment are shots taken previously from my Canon S30. (Unfortunately that camera was stolen, so I can't do any side-by-side comparisons) My initial impression with the F10 is generally positive. I love the small size, the responsiveness (it's amazingly fast), the 640x480 video. Indoor shots in a museum were similar to ones I got out of my S30, but then again, I had several years to get familiar with the S30 and only a week to experiment with the F10. Also, it would be more fair to compare the F10 to a similar compact point-and-shoot camera like the Canon SD450 or SD550. If anyone has familiarity with both the F10 and the smaller Canon's (SD450, SD550, etc), I'd love to hear about it.

If there's interest, I can see if I can post some of my initial pics.

[allenhuffman]

I've been through four or five different cameras since my Sony DSC-S70 in 2001 trying to find one that could take good "no flash" indoor pics. The F10 has been the only thing I found (after much research) to come close. The old Sony could do F2.0 which seems to be the key (nothing else made other than SLRs seem to be able to do this, other than the old Cannon G6 which seems slow and clunky). The F10's ISO allowed me to finally take similar pics inside attractions at Disneyland, and it's still not as good as the old Sony was, but nothing else has even come close to the F10.

I've tried Casio, Nikon, new Sony, and have taken quite a hit selling the cameras on e-Bay as I move on to something else.

F10's not perfect; but it's the only thing I've found for good low light.

[Balrog]

The failed evening shots I was referring to were all taken at the manual setting, ISO at 800 or 1600, with flash suppressed.

Reading through some of the posts over at dpreview, I get the sense that while Fuji accurately rates their ISO settings (compared to higher end cameras), Canon tends to underrate them (there's apparently been extensive discussion on this at dpreview -- apologies if I'm getting this incorrect). For this reason, a Canon set to ISO400 will use a shorter exposure time than a Fuji set to ISO400. Or conversely, to get an exposure time of say 1/30 second requires a slightly higher ISO setting for the Fuji as compared to the Canon. This was my experience as well. On the flip side, the noise level of the Fuji ISO800 is indeed remarkably low, similar or perhaps a bit better than the ISO400 on my previous Canon S30.

The only thing I have to compare the F10 to at the moment are shots taken previously from my Canon S30. (Unfortunately that camera was stolen, so I can't do any side-by-side comparisons) My initial impression with the F10 is generally positive. I love the small size, the responsiveness (it's amazingly fast), the 640x480 video. Indoor shots in a museum were similar to ones I got out of my S30, but then again, I had several years to get familiar with the S30 and only a week to experiment with the F10. Also, it would be more fair to compare the F10 to a similar compact point-and-shoot camera like the Canon SD450 or SD550. If anyone has familiarity with both the F10 and the smaller Canon's (SD450, SD550, etc), I'd love to hear about it.

If there's interest, I can see if I can post some of my initial pics.

If the Fuji F10 can't get you a shot at ISO1600, it's not likely anything else in the P&S world will be able to ... even if the Canon sensor is a bit more sensitive than it is rated at (say, half a stop, even - though it's more like a third), ISO 1600 gives you TWO stops more than what an SD500 would be able to at ISO400, which more than makes up for the difference in sensitivity. At that point the only thing you can do to get in more light is to have a bigger aperture..

ISO plus Aperture plus Shutter speed gets you an "exposure value" that should be constant across ALL cameras - so if the Fuji can't manage 1/30th at ISO1600 and f/2.8, even an SLR with the same settings in the same lighting won't be able to. Of course, with an SLR you could attach an f/2 or f/1.4 lens; no such luxury on fixed-lens cameras.

[Random]

Thanks for all your feedback. Perhaps "Difficulties" in the title of this thread should really be called "Learning curve." I've been playing quite a bit more with my new F10 in recent weeks, and the more I use it the more I like it.

Balrog - you're quite right. Even though there is that slight difference in sensitivity at the same ISO, there's two advantages of the F10 that I've found: 1) the noise is inded quite low (the ISO800 is similar or better than my previous Canon's ISO400. But really we shouldn't compare these two ISO's since the difference in exposure time is not completely a factor of two). 2) the F10 can go all the way to ISO1600. The noise at this setting is actually not that bad. My previous Canon S30 had an ISO800 setting, but the noise was terrible. Because of that, I was initially worried about setting my F10 to high ISO values, but the images are remarkably good. I guess as with all things, there's a bit of a learning curve to go through, to get used to what ISO and exposure compensation to use in which situation, but I'm starting to love the F10.