Pana DMC-F25 like with higher ISO

[Listicka]

Budget $1000 max

Size SLR like

How many megapixels will suffice for you? Ultrazoom is a wish

“image quality” 8 and up

Do you care for manual controls? Yes

What will you generally use the camera for? Outdoors, indoors, details, low light conditions

Will you be making big prints of your photos or not? 8x10 as well

Will you be shooting a lot of indoor photos or low light photos? Yes, lots of them

Will you be shooting sports and/or action photos? Seldom

Are there particular brands you like or hate? Canon, Nikon, Kodak, Olympus, Sony, and Panasonic are all OK

Are there particular models you already have in mind? Panasonic DMC-F30, Kodak P850, Sony DSC-H1, Canon S2 IS

Do you need any of the following special features? in importance:
ISO 1600 is a big wish
IS
Movie Clips
RAW
Wide Angle (lens accessory is fine)

I realize I don't have easy requirements with all of the above listed. I would go for an SLR, but don't like the fact, it doesn't do movie clips (that is the only factor I don't go for it). I like the features of Pana DMC-F30, but am disappointed about the high noise in low light situations.
I like the Canon S2 IS a lot, but the fact it does only JPG format and does use batteries stops me from thinking of buying it.

I love to take pictures, I did them since I was little. I don't buy cameras too often, but if I buy one, I like to get the best for the medium price and use it for few years before I invest into another one.

I am willing to spend more money for a camera if it would have all the features I wish for, but am afraid there isn't one like that on the market. I spent hours reading reviews and am still not sure which camera would be the one for me to buy.

Thank you in advance

[coldrain]

The RAW from a panasonic is not better than JPEG from the S2 IS. RAW really only can give the edge if the camera is capable of very good results, like DSLR's... It uses AA batteries, you just buy a good set of NiMH rechargable batteries and a charger for 25$. What is not to like in that? It means you can put any AA batteries in if your rechargables run out in an inopportune moment. Better than propriary format batteries like the panasonic, in my opinion...

[BonjiB]

I'll say this in this thread too. I own an fz30 and i couldn't be happier. The "noise" is far less of an issue as people make it out to be. It's NOT a noise monster. The image quality is far better than the fz20 (yes i've used both.) I think what happend is some review sites like dpreview bitched about noise in their review and now everyone thinks it's a horrible camera. They said it themselves, it's a better camera than the fz20 and the fz20 got a highly reccomended rating with hardly anything significant in the cons section. Aparenly the 30 just didn't meet their expectations. Yeah the image quality improvement isn't as good as it could have been going from 5 to 8 but it's still leaps and bounds better in my opinion. THe only time noise is an issue with me is shooting outdoors at night with no flash. Otherwise i use a sunpak 383 to light up whatever room i happen to be in and iso settings are a non issue. And even in those situations (the outdoor low light no flash) the images will still clean up well enough to make awesome prints. Also it has an amazing movie mode with useable zoom while filming. 55mm threads allow attachments such as filters/teleconverters/wide angles etc etc. To pick the s2 or h1 over the fz30 in my opinion would be counterproductive as the fz30 is far superior to either in both handling and image quality (and i have shot with and seen the results of both of those cameras.) I wouldn't hesistate to reccomend the fz30. It's my absolute favorite camera to shoot with and by far the best i've ever owned.

[coldrain]

I'll say this in this thread too. I own an fz30 and i couldn't be happier. The "noise" is far less of an issue as people make it out to be. It's NOT a noise monster. The image quality is far better than the fz20 (yes i've used both.) I think what happend is some review sites like dpreview bitched about noise in their review and now everyone thinks it's a horrible camera. They said it themselves, it's a better camera than the fz20 and the fz20 got a highly reccomended rating with hardly anything significant in the cons section. Aparenly the 30 just didn't meet their expectations. Yeah the image quality improvement isn't as good as it could have been going from 5 to 8 but it's still leaps and bounds better in my opinion. THe only time noise is an issue with me is shooting outdoors at night with no flash. Otherwise i use a sunpak 383 to light up whatever room i happen to be in and iso settings are a non issue. And even in those situations (the outdoor low light no flash) the images will still clean up well enough to make awesome prints. Also it has an amazing movie mode with useable zoom while filming. 55mm threads allow attachments such as filters/teleconverters/wide angles etc etc. To pick the s2 or h1 over the fz30 in my opinion would be counterproductive as the fz30 is far superior to either in both handling and image quality (and i have shot with and seen the results of both of those cameras.) I wouldn't hesistate to reccomend the fz30. It's my absolute favorite camera to shoot with and by far the best i've ever owned.
So, in what way is its image quality superior to an S2 IS, H1 and FZ20?

It is by far the noisiest camera in its field (as UZ and as 8mp camera, if you dont count the Panasonic LX1). That some think noise is ok, is fine... Yet it is an 8mp noise monster with over sharpening.

[swgod98]

To pick the s2 or h1 over the fz30 in my opinion would be counterproductive as the fz30 is far superior to either in both handling and image quality. I wouldn't hesistate to reccomend the fz30.

I would not hesitate to recomment the FZ30 either (and I don't even own one). But, you make it sound like the FZ30 is better than the other camera's mentioned in all categories, which is simply not true. While I don't think the FZ30 is a "noise monster", it's a true fact that it has more noise than the others at equivalent ISO's.

If that is Listicka's only concern, I would say just buy the FZ30. Neat Image and similar programs can help reduce noise on the images that really need it. And unless you're doing professional stuff, it probably won't be an issue. I wouldn't mind having an FZ30, but it was more expensive, much much larger, had a burst mode that failed to deliver over time, and didn't have the video mode features I was interested in.

To say the FZ30 is far superior is a false statement unless you are willing to provide examples of why/how.

Now...seeing that Listicka's first interest is higher ISO, I would consider throwing in the S9000 (and S5200) as options for her. Both of these reach ISO1600 and produce less noise at all equivalent ISO values than the mentioned camera's. The other side of this coin is the fact that neither of these have IS.

If size (and cost) is not a concern, the FZ30 and S9000 are two camera's I would consider for you. Aside from that, the S2 and S5200 are the next teir choices...they are not necessarily worse camera's...just less expensive.

The P850 also has decent ISO performance, but the ISO800 option provides a measly 1.8mp image.

I probably just made your decision even more difficult. Sorry.

[Listicka]

I looked into the Fuji S9000. I don't like the fact it uses batteries. The IS is not available, but it has Anti Blur feature. Reading reviews, it is also noisier compact camera. I will check it out in the store, but I don't shoot for it for now.

Reading the reviews of Kodak P850 and P880 - slightly similar to each other... I realize these 2 are new cameras on the marked, no detailed reviews are available yet. I like the higher ISO on them with the other options I am looking for. I would have to sacrifice not having 8 mega pixels on the P850 model. I am considering P850 as a second choice.
Unless I am wrong, I don't see much of Kodak cameras being wished for or recommended. Am I missing something in here? Please advise.

I like the fact that DMC-FZ30 has a mechanically linked zoom ring. I am not a professional, but I love to edit images as cropping, blending, special effects..., so the image quality and format is a big factor to me. I do consider Ninja Noise or Neat Image as an alternative for the noise now. So far this is my choice number one, even it is noisier than other models. But the features are also better and the closest to what I am looking for. I don't mind the size of the camera, I am not looking for pocket type system, but for features and functionality.

One more question, does FZ30 have an option to print photos from video, split, or merge?

[BonjiB]

To say the FZ30 is far superior is a false statement unless you are willing to provide examples of why/how.


I'm so tired of 'defending' my camera. Do a search of all the threads i've posted in. Many of them are trying to explain the clear advantages the fz30 has over it's 5 megapixel cousins. It has to do with resolution and sensor size. If you compare images at 100% yeah you'll be disappointed cuz the fz30 has 3 million more dots than any of those cameras i said it's better than thus is shows more noise. Downsample the images from 8 to 5mp or better yet, print em at the same size print then compare and you'll find that happiness ensues. Viewing an image at 100% on a high res computer monitor tells you nothing about how it will print. Afterall, isn't it the goal of photography to PRINT the results?

[JTL]

I'm so tired of 'defending' my camera. Do a search of all the threads i've posted in. Many of them are trying to explain the clear advantages the fz30 has over it's 5 megapixel cousins. It has to do with resolution and sensor size. If you compare images at 100% yeah you'll be disappointed cuz the fz30 has 3 million more dots than any of those cameras i said it's better than thus is shows more noise. Downsample the images from 8 to 5mp or better yet, print em at the same size print then compare and you'll find that happiness ensues. Viewing an image at 100% on a high res computer monitor tells you nothing about how it will print. Afterall, isn't it the goal of photography to PRINT the results?So let me get this straight. We're supposed to take the bad and nosiy 8MP images and and downsample them to 5MP...which Panasonic should have put on the sensor in the first place, instead of the 8MP that it needlessly crammed on (oh, wait...I remember...it wasn't needless...it was to rope in all of the suckers who think more MPs on a small sensor is a good thing :D ). That makes A LOT of sense! :rolleyes: :D :D :D :p :eek: :confused: :cool: I think I just wet myself...hey, but I hope you know, it's all in good fun...don't ever change...love you, man...

[Listicka]

BonjiB,
I want to let you know I just ordered my Pana DMC-FZ30 at Buy.com for $549. I can't wait to get it.
The features of this camera won over any another SLR-like's, no matter what other people say. Everybody has their own preferences and everybody should buy what they think would be the best for them.
Thank you for pointing out some facts and thank you all for all the post on this forum that helped me to make a final decision.
BTW, I wasn't able to find this camera in any of our local stores. Cord Camera would get it for me, but for $699, no thanks. Roberts doesn't even carry Panasonic, what's with that? H&H Gregg came the closest, they had DMC-FD20 and other models. Other local stores - don't waste your time, they don't have it for now.