Canon 30D

[K1000578]

Canon have unofficially announced (leaked) the fact that the successor to the 20D will be with us soon. Best guesses have that date around early 2006. Canon have closely gaurded the release date and specifications.

I'm actually quite fond of my 20D, but if the 30D has 3 or more of the improvements on my Top 10 wishlist then I will definately upgrade, 2 or more and I will think about it.

Canon 30D Specification Top 10 Wishlist;

1)
A 1:1 cropping factor (i.e. no cropping) is at the top of my list but the least likely to happen due to Canons investment in EF-S lenses. If we are lucky, Canon will consider the the 300D, 350D and sucessors will be a sufficient user base to allow the 30D and future upgrades to have 1:1... but I doubt it. We might have to wait for the 40D. I would settle for anything better than 1.6x if it worked on my 17-85mm EF-S.

2)
ISO 50. Why is it not on the 20D? Hopefully they were saving it for the 30D.

3)
2.5" LCD screen. 1.8" is a bit small especially when you are trying to get a feel for the sharpness of your shots in the field. The zoom capability helps of course but is still hampered by the diminutive 118K pixel 1.8" LCD of the 20D.

4)
Buffer size improvement. The 20D has a respectable 5 fps frame rate and if the 30D can improve on that then great (8 fps would be nice), I actually have no gripe with the frame rate but I do with the buffer size. 6 RAW images is just not enough! 23 JPEGS is but bit tight too if you are willing to trade frames for quality. I want at least 20 RAW images before the buffer fills up, I expect the 30D to offer around 9-12 RAW frames in the buffer if they make any improvemment at all.

5)
ISO speed to be shown in the viewfinder... I mean, how hard would that be! It is so darn handy to have.

6)
Proper spot metering.

7)
Improvement on the viewfinders 95% coverage (98% would be nice). Too many times have I discovered nasty suprises lurking on the periphery of my shots because they didn't appear in the viewfinder.

8)
More AF points. 9 is ok, but more is better. 13? (9 + four corner points)

9)
Environment-proofing. I would certainly not expect to see anywhere near the level of weather proofing seen on the 1D, but any improvement would be welcome. Sand, particularly around the integrated flash area is a huge problem and has twice caused by flash head to jam. The buttons, switches and dials also seem quite prone to moisture, dust, and sand on the 20D. You get what you pay for, so I don't expect too much to happen in this department for the 30D.

10) The Nikon D70 has a neat little feature that allows you to turn on gridlines in the viewfinder. Great for leveling horizons and an excellent two-thirds training tool for beginners and amateurs alike. Caveat: as long as this feature doesn't also deliver the same crappy viewfinder image that the D70 does.

[Rex914]

Canon have unofficially announced (leaked) the fact that the successor to the 20D will be with us soon.

1) When did this leak occur?
2) Where? (Source please)
3) Who leaked it?
4) What was provided in the leak besides the existence of such a camera?

[K1000578]

1) When did this leak occur?
2) Where? (Source please)
3) Who leaked it?
4) What was provided in the leak besides the existence of such a camera?

I first heard about it from a Canon Rep in NZ, I made some enquiries through my distributor connections and they confirmed it. If you do a search on Google you will find that it is a fairly "out there" fact now.

I can't give names in case anybody gets in trouble for being an excitable loud mouth (sorry).

[coldrain]

I first heard about it from a Canon Rep in NZ, I made some enquiries through my distributor connections and they confirmed it. If you do a search on Google you will find that it is a fairly "out there" fact now.

I can't give names in case anybody gets in trouble for being an excitable loud mouth (sorry).
Rumor has it that the EOS 30D will be introduced early 2000, and that it will have a full 3.25 mpixel sensor in APS-C format.
To get it more into line with the Nikon offerings, Canon have decided to put the D before the number again. Some early spy shots have been spotted around the net, like this one:
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/d30-review/camera-front.jpg
More seriously, what silly nonsense is this. Of course Canon will introduce a follow up to the 20D! You do not need to hear some empty rumor from a "NZ Canon rep" to know that. Hey psssst, I hear that Mercedes is working on a car to replace the current C-class! I heard it from an Italian sales rep!

Since there is NO information in your "rumor" about what a follow up of the 20D will be like, this is one of the most useless and pointless posts of the past month.

Why don't you start a more serious poll, for instance one about a prediction of when George Riehm's D70 will melt?
http://www.nikonusa.com/email_images/nikonusa/service_advisory/battery.html

[K1000578]

Well that was a nasty reply. Good for you.

By the way I am not confused about the old D30 being the new 30D.

Naming people is sometimes useful, but for the purposes of my post is not necessary. I don't need you to believe what I wrote or even that there is indeed a 30D coming out. So don't believe it if you don't want to.

My post is for those people who would like to know what is happening in the rumour mill. For those who want an official statement, please visit the Canon website... and wait.

For more rumours, just do a Google search on Canon 30D.

[coldrain]

My point is that your rumor contains NO INFORMATION!

Nothing at all, except that there will be a follow up to the 20D. DUH!!!

What a big surprise there. Soon you will be telling us that Nikon will at some point in time come with a follow up to the D70s and that Canon will update its EOS 350D.

Now when you actually have some news about a new camera, that will be interesting. But this? empty nonsense.

[ktixx]

Well that was a nasty reply. Good for you.

By the way I am not confused about the old D30 being the new 30D.

Naming people is sometimes useful, but for the purposes of my post is not necessary. I don't need you to believe what I wrote or even that there is indeed a 30D coming out. So don't believe it if you don't want to.

My post is for those people who would like to know what is happening in the rumour mill. For those who want an official statement, please visit the Canon website... and wait.

For more rumours, just do a Google search on Canon 30D.

I agree that reply was a little harsh, but basically you have to understand the past of digital cameras to understand why that was said. Basically the successor of the 20d has been a rumor since the day the 20d was released. There are always theories on what the next best thing is going to be. All coldrain was saying is that there will CLEARLY be a successor to the 20d - Canon is not going to just stop making a very successful camera line, but the information you provided is nothing more than speculation. So when the time comes that there is some official information on the newest model in the canon prosumer class, if you are the first to find out about it, then of course post it. But saying you HEARD from a guy that....well it just that, hearsay - and coldrain was saying that a post that says canon will release a new camera is just stating the obvious.

Ken

[Rhys]

There will be a 20D replacement this winter. There will be a replacement for the replacement in about a year to 18 months too.

[cdifoto]

There will be a 20D replacement this winter. There will be a replacement for the replacement in about a year to 18 months too.

Who leaked?!?!? :eek: :D :p

[ktixx]

Who leaked?!?!? :eek: :D :p
LOL.... :D :D

[ktixx]

For all those who voted for a better cropping factor, I doubt you will see it for a LONG time. I would speculate that canon would reserve that feature for their pro-line cameras only. I am sure it will eventually work its way down, but in the immediate future I cannot see it being listed as a feature. Any thoughts?

[cdifoto]

For all those who voted for a better cropping factor, I doubt you will see it for a LONG time. I would speculate that canon would reserve that feature for their pro-line cameras only. I am sure it will eventually work its way down, but in the immediate future I cannot see it being listed as a feature. Any thoughts?

I can't see it as ALWAYS a pro feature...but I think due to the costs of production, it'll be a pro thing for awhile. At least until it's cheaper to mass produce.

[George Riehm]

Why don't you start a more serious poll, for instance one about a prediction of when George Riehm's D70 will melt?
http://www.nikonusa.com/email_images/nikonusa/service_advisory/battery.html

Thanks for the concern, but no need for a poll as none of the three EN-EL3's I have are on the list. As for a new Canon to replace the 20D...

... I always thought that the 20D would be the last consumer dSLR Canon would ever design.;)

Seriously, I like the 20D almost as much as the D70, but Canon did leave off some nice features that I use alot, which is why I did not change. 5fps and 8MP alone were not enough reason to give up spot metering, a terrific Speedlight/flash system (SB800), and a very good AF system.

These are the points that Canon needs to improve. The Nikon D200 will be tough to beat with a (low cost) DX size CMOS sensor, and I think that Nikon learned a difficult lesson with the D2X, and possibly kept Canon from making the same mistake with the 5D.

I'm betting the next prosumer dSLR from Canon will be a 1.3X crop, 11MP, 5fps, and true ISO 3200, with many of the features originally left off of the 20D. Priced at, or a little above, $1700. Not sure about an EF-S 18-200 IS USM.

Nikon has rasied the bar with the D200, and Canon owners (and Nikon owners) stand to benefit.

... and the beat goes on...

[D Thompson]

There will be a 20D replacement this winter. There will be a replacement for the replacement in about a year to 18 months too.
I hear that in about 36 months or so there will be a replacement of the replacement that replaced the 20D.:D Sorry no names please.

[Rhys]

I hear that in about 36 months or so there will be a replacement of the replacement that replaced the 20D.:D Sorry no names please.

You heard that too? It must be true then. Have you also heard that Nikon will be taken over by Pentax soon and will start making garden spades after the entire optical division is transferred to Pentax in around 2007?

[cdifoto]

You heard that too? It must be true then. Have you also heard that Nikon will be taken over by Pentax soon and will start making garden spades after the entire optical division is transferred to Pentax in around 2007?

I heard Martha Stewart will be putting her name on those spades.

[George Riehm]

You heard that too? It must be true then. Have you also heard that Nikon will be taken over by Pentax soon and will start making garden spades after the entire optical division is transferred to Pentax in around 2007?

No but I heard that Canon is designing a cannon, and has hired Cannon to make lens cloths. Additionally, someone at Canon, or maybe Cannon is writing a canon.

Fun.

[coldrain]

Not sure about an EF-S 18-200 IS HSM.

That would be USM, Virtual Reality dude ;)

[George Riehm]

For all those who voted for a better cropping factor, I doubt you will see it for a LONG time. I would speculate that canon would reserve that feature for their pro-line cameras only. I am sure it will eventually work its way down, but in the immediate future I cannot see it being listed as a feature. Any thoughts?

ktixx, I'm betting 1.3X crop (super APS-C size). CMOS is still a noisy process and 9MP is about the limit for usable ISO above 800 on 1.6x sized CMOS sensors. Canon was pushing the limit of this technology on a smallish sub APS-C sensor (20D/350D) and some very good noise reduction firmware. Sony (R1) and Nikon (D2X) have confirmed this limit for CMOS.

The replacement will probably be 11MP to keep it below the 5D and above the Nikon D200 (which went back to quieter CCD's for the 10MP DX sensor). Canon has no large-wafer, in-house, CCD process (yet).

The next prosumer dSLR sensor will be 1.3X to enable continued use of EF-S lenses, and retain good ISO noise characteristics. I can see this 1.3x platform becoming a Canon standard (replacing 1.6x) for the next 3-5 years. I see Nikon and Sony following suit.

Of course it is possible that 1.3x crop will not work well with digital only lenses. But I think Canon has thought far enough ahead to design the EF-S lenses for this contingency.

Some under-designed digital specific third party lenses, will likely have increased vignetting problems with 1.3x crop.

Just my theory.

[George Riehm]

That would be USM, Virtual Reality dude ;)

Thanks for the correction (also corrected on the post). Same idea different manufacturer. VR... cute.;)

[aparmley]

Who leaked?!?!? :eek: :D :p

It twas I, however, it was no leak. That my friend, was a one-cheek-sneak! :D

[George Riehm]

It twas I, however, it was no leak. That my friend, was a one-cheek-sneak! :D

I read somewhere that Canon is looking for the leak. Something about knees, a guy named Vito, and a baseball bat??? Gee that's neeto, and I thought baseball season was over.

Maybe you can join the "leakers" protection program...

...run, Forest, run!

[TheObiJuan]

The leak came from the White House.
There will be a Congressianal investigation, after the two current ones are done.

Those that want a FF sensor in this update are kidding themselves.
Even the next one will be 1.6.
The crop factor works for MANY indivuals. It's a sports, wildlife, papparazi,etc shooters dream. The 400mm f/2.8L IS is great, but it's even longer, 60% longer with APS-C, than with FF.
Canon doesn't offer a 600mm f/2.8L IS lens for FF games to get the same FOV.
And if they did, the APS-C guys could use it and get a 960mm f/2.8L IS FOV.
:eek:


The APS-C shooters that bitch about ultra wide or just wide angle can use many full frame ultra wide lenses or cropped lenses available.


ISO in the viewfinder is not going to happen. Canon have to hold some things back for there exclusive pro bodies.

ISO 50 is nice, but with the reduced dynamic range, why bother?
Put on a ND or CPOL.

2.5" is great, but they better make it much brighter and atleast 250K pixels.
If not, don't bother. In daylight the 20D and 350D viewfinders are worthless.

Bigger frame buffer is very likely and necessary.

Spot metering is a must have, but not a guaranteed option. It seems like one of those pro body options. The 5D has it, but it costs as much as a pro body.

Improved viewfinder coverage in addition to a better viewfinder overall is necessary. The 20D's is too small. Make it larger, like 30% larger with more magnification to compensate.

Better AF with more AF. This is my main problem with the 20D.

Environment proofing would be nice. I shoot outdoors enough for it to matter.
Dust inside the viewfinder after a few months of use is unacceptable.

Improved resolution is not necessary, but will happen because of the MP Wars.
They could improve the pixels, reduce the AA strength, and work on cleanin up the 100% image, like the 5D has. The images are very clean and sharp.

I would like to see better ISO performance at ISO 3200 and open up ISO 6400.
The ISO 6400 could look like ISO 3200 on the D200 and that wouldn't be bad.

A grip that looks good, ins't stupidly designed, and doesn't cause power problems is a MUST.

The 20D is right hand biased, whereas the 7D and D70 are friendly to lefties, plus more buttons and dials/knobs make hunting through menus less necessary.

[aparmley]

Find a way to incorporate a pez despenser in that battery grip - SOLD! :D

[ReValveiT]

Ya know, I'm pretty damn sure my 300d had the ISO in the VF (when changing ISO, not all the time).

Someone tell me I didn't dream that!

[K1000578]

I agree that reply was a little harsh, but basically you have to understand the past of digital cameras to understand why that was said. Basically the successor of the 20d has been a rumor since the day the 20d was released. There are always theories on what the next best thing is going to be. All coldrain was saying is that there will CLEARLY be a successor to the 20d - Canon is not going to just stop making a very successful camera line, but the information you provided is nothing more than speculation...

Ken

I agree with all your comments and the advent of a 30D is just speculation based comments from a Canon Rep from a very small (but very cool) country who actually said that the 20D will soon be replaced by the 30D. There is no harm in repeating what I heard and yes, the information value is virtually insignificant given that Canon will invariably release something soon.

However, I got to thinking about the types of features I want to see in the next 20D, I stated why I wanted them and what I thougt the chances were, and I was curious what other people thought. Some users took the time to respond with very insightful thoughts regarding almost all of the features on my wishlist and I actually found these comments both informative and helpful to my own way of thinking. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Basically, it made my posting (which is genuine) worth the effort despite the piss-takes.

My apologies to those who were expecting a definative spy report, that was not my intention.

Other sites have already started questioning the name "30D" that they had also heard... shouldn't it be the 15D? Stupid names would be 20D Plus, or the 20D MarkII... etc etc. The point is, forums like these are great places to test thoughts and opinions even if they are based on rumour and heresay.

And that's my 2 cents worth.