Used Canon 10D or Used Nikon D70?

[red hot sheep]

I'm in the market for a DSLR, and have quite a limited budget. I have seen quite a few used 10d's on ebay for reasonable prices (around £400), and they look tempting. On the other hand, used D70s go for around the same price.

Comparing these cameras, which has better noise performance, and do they stand up to the modern cameras quite well?

What things should I look out for when buying a used SLR? What are the shutter life expentancies of these models?

I suppose I could spend another £200 and get a new 350d, but I prefer the build and size of the 10d. However, would you recommend I ignore this and get the 350d? How does noise/image quality and speed of the 10d/D70 compare with the 350d?

Many thanks. :-)

EDIT: Forgot to add: how do the viewfinders of these cameras compare? By the way, I where glasses, so do I need a large eyepoint?

Also, feel free to recommend any other budget or used DSLRs in my limited budget, as I have no current lenses.

[timmciglobal]

Why not a D50 then?

Can find them cheap online.

Tim

[red hot sheep]

Thanks for the reply Tim.

I guess I hadn't really thought about the D50 as I presumed the Canon 10D had a larger viewfinder. Also it doesn't have depth of field preview like the others. But I should consider it, as the price is certainly low!

How does its viewfinder compare to that of the 10D and D70? Thanks :)

[thebac]

As far as noise, among entry-level DSLR cameras, the D50 is considered the best at the moment at high ISO. However, do consider that Canons tend to be more sensitive than their rated ISO/ASA, so they might be a better choice if you're thinking of shooting in the 1600 range.

Having said that, if you're coming from a P&S, any of their noise performances will blow you away (even the much maligned Oly 4/3 cameras deliver much better noise performances than P&S's.).

As far as the viewfinder, the one on the D70 isn't very good (don't know much about the 10D). I understand that the Pentax *ist DS has an exceptional viewfinder, as does the the KM 7D. If you're planning on using manual focus and your eyesight isn't all that great, the D70 might be a struggle.

Having said all that, I prefer the D70 over what I know of the 10D, mainly because the D70 is more responsive (focusing, instant-on, etc.).

If you plan on sticking with the branded lenses, one thing you might consider is that Nikon has an exceptional kit lens as a walkaround lens, while Canon doesn't (though theirs is much cheaper). Further, in the consumer range, Canon feature several affordable IS lenses, while Nikon have more affordable fast lenses, but their VR lenses tend to cost an arm and a leg, except for the 24-120.

There are other differences, but I suspect that neither noise performance nor viewfinders will be the dealbreaker between the 10D and the D70.

[red hot sheep]

Thanks a lot thebac for that great response!

I hadn't realised that the DS had a good viewfinder: that camera is definately in my price range. I'm just worried about the smaller range of lenses available. Are many sigma/tamron lenses available in Pentax mounts?

Also, I believed that the 350d had lower noise at iso 1600 than the D50, but this isn't the case? I had been looking at Jeff's reviews and comparing his nightshots at 1600 and the 350d seemed to have the edge. Is this an odd example?

Thanks again for your helpful reply.

[Balrog]

The DS has the best viewfinder in all consumer-level SLRs .. it's better even than the one on the 20D. Sigma/Tamron/Tokina etc all produce their lenses for Pentax mount as well; you can also get some great deals on old pentax lenses on Ebay (the camera can use just about any pentax lens since the 50's... and Pentax lenses are second to none.)

Where Pentax is limited is in lens 'features' ... you can't get IS or USM lenses for Pentax; how important that is to you is for you to decide.

[thebac]

rhs, according to the review on dpreview, they measured lower noise levels in the D50 at comparable ISO than other entry level DSLR's. Keep in mind that Jeff's shots are illustrative but cannot be taken as fact because he faces different conditions when he goes for shots with different cameras. Having said that, keep in mind that Canons are more sensitive than their ISO rating, so their true noise levels might be lower.

The *ist DS is probably on par with the D70 as far as noise levels. Again, depending on where you're coming from, the entry-level DSLR's all produce similar noise levels (save the slightly noisier Oly's), so I wouldn't sweat that aspect too much.

I'd worry much more about other features, from responsiveness to ergonomics, to the nifty anti-shake in the KM's, how easy it is to change settings, the viewfinder, the buffer, flash system, lenses, anti-dust shaker, etc.

I don't know much about Pentax lenses, but it seems Balrog has already given you an informative response.

Btw, IS/VR or USM/AFS are nice features, but depending on what you shoot (and under what conditions), they're far from "musts." Besides, they tend to be relatively pricey features, their availability might not matter to you if you're not going to take advantage of them.

[red hot sheep]

Thanks again for the excellent and informative replies.

The only reason why I have not mentioned the 5D/7D is that I thought a member on this forum was having trouble getting her collection of Minolta lenses to work with it. Is this an infrequent problem? I also heard of some focus problems, and if I was buying online, getting it fixed could be a problem.

I wish I had a camera dealer near me so I could go and hold and try out all of these cameras :(...

[red hot sheep]

So does the Nikon D50 have less noise than the D70 or D70s? If so, that is quite strange, as the D70/D70s are supposed to be the higher models!

[Balrog]

Apparently they did a couple of tweaks on the D50; it doesn't exhibit as much moire or noise as its older siblings. However, I suggest you trust your own eyes' evidence more than "what dpreview says" ... I myself also found the RebelXT looking better at ISO 1600+..

I just noticed you'd asked about eyepoint - yes, if you wear glasses, a high eyepoint is necessary; I use the *ist DS myself (with glasses) and find it to be high enough to see the whole VF + info bar with a little room to spare. I wouldn't even be able to see the whole frame with glasses on, with a low eyepoint.

It really is a bummer you can't try them out at a dealer; holding / looking through / using the cameras is *the* easiest way to decide which one fits you best.

[red hot sheep]

Thanks again balrog - this is really helping me.

So if your DS only has a little room to spare with you wearing glasses, I'm going to find out its eyepoint and compare it to the other models. I guess one of the most important features of the SLR (and of its usability) is its viewfinder, and I would hate to buy one where I couldn't make out the whole frame. I can also just make out the whole VF and info on my 35mm SLR, and I don't want to lose that ability.

Plus, I can't take off my glasses, as I'm so short-sighted, that none of the cameras have enough diopter correction for me!

[red hot sheep]

Ideally, I would like a 20d but can't afford it. However, I'm less tempted to get the 350d, as 10d used prices are cheaper, and I love the larger, more robust body.

I guess my underlying question is this: Can a 10D compete with more modern dSLRs such as the 350d with respect to performance, image quality etc. Ie. would I be sacrificing anything by buying an older 10d just to get its size and build quality (albeit for a cheaper price than a 350d)?

[coldrain]

The 10D can compete with a d70 in image quality and speed. Even though the 20D is better in every point, that does not make the 10D a bad camera at all. The 8mp sensors of the 20D and 350D are a little better than the older 6mp one from the 10D, but the 10D can hold its own quite well. The 10D can make excellent photos!

One thing to keep in mind though, is that the 10D can not use EF-S lenses. So for instance the EF-S 10-22mm USM would not be an option.

The D70 is not a bad camera either, although I did not consider it because I hate its moire and other related artifacts that it produces with its in camera processing to gain resulting resolution. The sharper the lens, the more chance of odd artifacts did just not seem so attractive to me. And so I chose the 350D, being very happy about the saved weight.

The D50 actually has a bit less of a problem with these artifacts, it also makes a lot less noisy photos and slighly over exposes where the the D70 slightly under exposes, and has a better colour balance... it is not only the sensor than makes a photo.

[red hot sheep]

Thanks again coldrain.

I think that my choice is going to be between the 350d and 10d. Would this comparison be fair:

Pros of the 350d: 2 extra mp's, better high iso performance, near-instant powerup

Pros of the 10d: more robust body, better viewfinder, £100 cheaper