Fuji S5200 vs Konica-Minolta Dimage Z6

[smithkt]

After reading countless posts here and in other forums along with various user reviews (none of the major sites appear to have reviewed either of these yet) I came to the conlusion that the Fuji S5200 may just be the perfect camera for my needs.

To sum those up:

1) longer zoom
2) low/natural light ability
3) occassional moving subjects (daughter competes in Karate tournaments)

So I head down to the only camera shop in my area that actually stocks the thing to get a real feel for the camera's size and balance and take a few test shots. While doing so, the shop owner suggests the Dimage Z6 as another alternative.

The advantages over the Fuji are a slightly longer zoom, 10x vs 12x, a hotshoe for an external flash, and 6MP vs 5MP thought the sensor is the same size. I've gone back and read as much as I can find about this camera, but not much is out there. Looking at the review of it's predecessor, the Z5, there appears to be concern over noise even at ISO 200.

Wondering if any of you have any experience with the Z6 and would recommend it over the S5200. My wife, who will admit she knows next to nothing about these things, liked the idea of the external flash for certain occasions. Any thought on how important this is in a midlevel camera like these.

[bond007]

oh where u find review for s5200?
can't seem to find anything on s5200, cuz it's so new or something

[smithkt]

oh where u find review for s5200?
can't seem to find anything on s5200, cuz it's so new or something

I didn't find a professional review, only user reviews. I wish DCRP, DP Review, or Imaging Resource would review the S5200. All three of these sights provide extremely thorough and trustworthy reviews. Right now, I am simply relying on the feedback from people who have already bought them.

[Risky Business]

I'm not sure if it's out of your price range but you may also want to consider the Canon S2 IS.

You would gain: wide zoom (36 mm vs. 38 mm), tele zoom (12x/432 mm vs. 10x/380 mm), image stablization*, lower aperture range (F2.7 vs. 3.2), custom self-timer (as well as 2 sec & 10 sec), flip-out-and-twist LCD, time-lapse recording, excellent movie mode, stereo audio. You would lose: no RAW format, max. shutter speed (1/3200 vs. 1/4000).

Note: I'm not sure what the Fuji's burst capabilities are but the Canon's is very good (2.4 fps, unlimited).

*See my IS example (handheld/max. tele zoom) in this thread:
http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13240

[swgod98]

Don't forget the S5200's main advantage, the higher ISO ability. That is what makes the Fuji so appealing. The Fuji's burst mode, from their website, is 2 fps with a 3 frame limit...or 1 fps unlimited.

smith, if you are taking shots indoors or action, the Fuji's ISO ability will help a lot! Unfortunately, I don't know how necessary a good flash will be. It might be REQUIRED, because it will be extremely difficult to stop the action of someone kicking and punching without decent (and I'm talking sun) light.

I guess it all comes down to how bright it will be indoors. To stop really fast action, you will need approximately 1/500 shutter speed. Indoors, that will not be easy and I can almost guarantee you will be using ISO400 or higher (realistically, this is Fuji and dSLR only territory).

[smithkt]

Once again, I must say thanks again for the responses. This site rocks. I think I'm going to pick up an S5200 and take it for a test drive.

[Risky Business]

Just don't hang your hat on Fuji's higher ISO range. Considering they're using the same size sensor as many others in its class, my guess is that it will be largely unusable unless you are willing to accept noisy photos. Make sure you can return it if you buy it and test it. Or wait for a formal review.

[smithkt]

Just don't hang your hat on Fuji's higher ISO range. Considering they're using the same size sensor as many others in its class, my guess is that it will be largely unusable unless you are willing to accept noisy photos. Make sure you can return it if you buy it and test it. Or wait for a formal review.

Curious what others think about this. It was my understanding that the newer fuji cameras were using a new ccd which produced much lower noise pictures. How big an issue is this?

[swgod98]

Risky, you should take a look at users photos. There are plenty out there. The noise seems to be controlled very well at ISO's below 800. ISO 800 is decent, but not that pretty. You will get a printable 4x6 image, but you might not be able to enlarge it much. ISO 1600 is kind of messy, but most UZ camera's at ISO 400 are just as messy.

If you are interested in capturing "indoor" action, then I believe high ISO capability will be more useful than IS...hell, it will help better than a tripod! Because IS will not help stop the action, only a faster exposure time will...which can only be done by increasing ISO (or by adding more light!)...

And that is where the external flash will help.

I feel like I'm trying to sell the S5200. I actually own an S2 IS and I can personally vouch for the useability of IS in preventing camera shake. I can often take sharp photos with an exposure as slow as 1/8th second when at full zoom. Without IS, I am doomed to an extremely faster exposure. Indoors, this usually forces me into a very dark exposure. This also means that the S2 IS can take very sharp images at exposures that will not be able to stop action (hence subject blur, but not camera shake). Here's an example of what I expect you'll see (lol):

http://www.danshobbyshack.com/temp/martialarts.jpg

With the S5200, there is no IS...But, raising the ISO can help you by allowing you to use a faster exposure to produce a still properly exposed image. And because using a faster exposure means helping prevent BOTH camera shake AND subject motion, this is where I put my money (I've got 50 cents) for indoor action. UNFORTUNATELY (ya, in caps), because the S5200 doesn't have IS, you might very well be doomed into keeping the zoom to a minimum, or else you might find your images blurry due to camera shake. Though, I'm guessing that if you can get a fast enough exposure to stop the action, you'll have a fast enough exposure to stop camera shake.

All the possible scenarios are difficult to walk through, and I don't own an S5200 (or any camera that is ISO1600 capable) to help illustrate the differences or validate my opinions...

If you find a place that allows returns, that seems the thing to do...though I don't like the idea of people buying camera's with the intention of returning them *shrug*

Oh, and finally...The Fuji does not really produce cleaner images at the lowest ISO value (50 for the S2). It just controls noise better at all other ISO values.

I hope I made sense. I hope I didn't say anything that isn't true. I hope it helped.

[Phill D]

I just read the review of the Fuji s9000. Whilst this was not what you were considering Jeff does cover the high iso capabilities well which from reading your post would seem to be similar to your Fuji option. It may help you make your decision. There is also the Fuji F10 review that covers this as well. I have a Panasonic FZ20 & it struggles at indoor action and low light situations even with image stabilisation & a wide 2.8 aperture, so high iso ability with less noise (if the Fuji does actually deliver that in real situations) would probably be the way to go if you can't stretch to a DSLR that is.

[smithkt]

Thanks again. I've read both of those reviews as well as the F10 review on dpreview. I was (and still am) all but convinced the Fuji S5200 is the right camera for my needs, but Risky's comments about noise gave me pause. It would appear his remarks are pure speculation and not based on any actual experience with the camera, but I thought I'd throw it out there for the rest of you folks.

So to rephrase the question, does the fact that the 5MP S5200 uses a 1/2.5 sensor give anybody reason to believe the camera will be noisier at the higher ISOs or not?

No offense to Risky, It just feels like he is trying to steer me to the Canon S2 IS which is not on my short list.

[swgod98]

So to rephrase the question, does the fact that the 5MP S5200 uses a 1/2.5 sensor give anybody reason to believe the camera will be noisier at the higher ISOs or not?

You are going to see noise in any case. I don't think there's a way around it, short of a dSLR. 1/2.5 is a relatively small sensor, but Fuji's sensor is designed in a way unlike other sensors, with diagonally aligned wells. Plus, I wouldn't doubt the do some sort of processing in camera to help with the noise.

The results are undeniably better than your typical ISO400 max UZ camera.

[swgod98]

You'd think I knew how to use this forum by now. Sorry for the double post.

[Risky Business]

Many of us recently went through the same decision-making process that you're going through. Many of us are only trying to help you make an informed decision as to what the best camera is for you. Nothing more, nothing less.

It appears that the number one reason why you are leaning toward the 5200 is the higher ISO settings. I will reassert my point that if you buy this camera, make sure you are able to return it if you are not happy with the picture quality of the 800/1600 ISO settings. Several reviews stated that the picture quality at the higher ISO ranges (when required) is unsatisfactory (same with the 9000S). Perhaps it won't be unsatisfactory to you and that's all that matters, right? Just make sure you have an out-clause 'cause if you buy the camera for the 800/1600 ISO and are not happy, there are better cameras based on the remaining specs.

Noisy images at high ISO on sensors of this size is a fact! Ultimately, it comes down to whether the quality is acceptable to you.

Good luck and let us know how things turn out!

[bond007]

have you considered FZ5?

[Kuroyume]

well... i have been researching the s5200, and found this gallery (http://www.pbase.com/gtfsnow/s5600_pix) with a lot of samples...

this picture (http://www.pbase.com/gtfsnow/image/50354614), at ISO 1600, seems pretty usable to me, but only at sizes around this...

[Risky Business]

Kuroyume,

Good find. This will help others determine whether the high ISO settings are 'usable' to the user.

To me, that 1600 ISO photo is unusable. That is nowhere near acceptable quality to me. I would not print it, I would not put it in a photo album, I would not share it with others, etc. :)

To others, it may be acceptable.

'Nuff said. Onwards and upwards.

[Risky Business]

Last comment on that high ISO photo - click 'original' and look at the picture quality - it looks like a good photo that's been run through the watercolor filter in photoshop! :p

[smithkt]

You are going to see noise in any case. I don't think there's a way around it, short of a dSLR. 1/2.5 is a relatively small sensor, but Fuji's sensor is designed in a way unlike other sensors, with diagonally aligned wells. Plus, I wouldn't doubt the do some sort of processing in camera to help with the noise.

The results are undeniably better than your typical ISO400 max UZ camera.

Just to be clear, I do realize there will be noise, I guess I was hoping someone who has actually used a 5200 would chime in on their opinion of the level of noise and whether it is usable or not. Clearly the Canon users far outnumber the Fuji users. :)

Many of us recently went through the same decision-making process that you're going through. Many of us are only trying to help you make an informed decision as to what the best camera is for you. Nothing more, nothing less.

It appears that the number one reason why you are leaning toward the 5200 is the higher ISO settings. I will reassert my point that if you buy this camera, make sure you are able to return it if you are not happy with the picture quality of the 800/1600 ISO settings. Several reviews stated that the picture quality at the higher ISO ranges (when required) is unsatisfactory (same with the 9000S). Perhaps it won't be unsatisfactory to you and that's all that matters, right? Just make sure you have an out-clause 'cause if you buy the camera for the 800/1600 ISO and are not happy, there are better cameras based on the remaining specs.

Noisy images at high ISO on sensors of this size is a fact! Ultimately, it comes down to whether the quality is acceptable to you.

Good luck and let us know how things turn out!

I hope you understand I did not mean any disrepect to you. I appreciate the time you and everyone else has taken to provide your insight and feedback. I'm not debating the idea that noise will exist and accept that as the ISO increases, so will the noise. Since there have not been any pro reviews I could find done on this camera yet, I have been forced to rely completely on the opinions of the user community and in general, most seem very pleased with the image quality, even at the higher ISOs. If you can point me in the direction of some of the negative reviews, it would be greatly appreciated.

To clarify, I don't expect the majority of my photos to be taken at 800 or 1600 ISO as these would be extreme conditions, but there are times when I believe this is the only camera which will be able to capture the moment, so yes, this ability is the primary reason I am leaning in this direction. IS is less important to me as its not camera shake I am trying to overcome. It's subject movement which, to the best of my understanding, IS won't help me with. Video mode is absolutely meaningless to me. I'll never use it.

There is a local shop near me with a seven day, no questions asked, full money back guarantee. I hope it won't be necessary to take advantage of it.

[swgod98]

Last comment on that high ISO photo - click 'original' and look at the picture quality - it looks like a good photo that's been run through the watercolor filter in photoshop! :p

I agree, the original ISO1600 image looks terrible. But, I'll also mention that it does look quite printable (at 4x6). My S2 at ISO400 looks just as bad.

[Kuroyume]

Risky:

i agree that the original is quite unusable, but for me the smaller picture is fairly decent...

and besides, i think that with post-processing it might look better... nothing i would print at 8x10, but as swgod98 said 4x6 would be fine... maybe 5x7 with good post-processing...

the s5200 is quickly looking like the camera to buy for me... still, i hope reviews come before mid-december, when i will be buying...

[Phill D]

Have a look at the "Help me to buy the Smallest Ultra Zoom Camera" thred the last post by Sarah Joyce says she has the Fuji & seems very happy with it. She has posted some excellent images in the past as well. If you can catch her attention she might be able to give you an expert recommendation.

[smithkt]

Thanks for the heads up. I'll track the post down. I've seen Sarah post quite a bit on Steve's forum as well.

[speaklightly]

Here is a photo sample from the S-5200:

ISO-400
F-Stop-F 3.2
Shutter Speed 1/80th
NO Flash

What do you think?

SJ

[bond007]

Here is a photo sample from the S-5200:

ISO-400
F-Stop-F 3.2
Shutter Speed 1/80th
NO Flash

What do you think?

SJ

where do i click to see pic?

[speaklightly]

You just clicked in as I was posting. The photo is there now.

BTW, personally, IMHO only, I would not waste my time with the KM Z-6. I had KM Z cameras and they don't hold a candle to the Fuji S-5200.

SJ

[smithkt]

Wow. Nice photo.

Sarah,

I've read many of the threads you responded to here and the Steve's Forums. Your wealth of experience and knowledge is simply astounding. I appreciate you taking the time to help us neophites out.

I picked up the S5200 yesterday. I've got 6 more days to decide if I like it. Took several photos using the auto settings and was impressed enough to think this could be the right decision. I need to figure out how to use the rest of the camera and try to take some pictures in the situations I was having so much trouble with before.

I took a pair of pictures at full zoom with the "auto" and "anti-blur" modes and was surpised at how well it worked. Not to mention how surprised I was at how unsteady my hands actually are. :)

Next up is figuring out how to capture moving subjects in average lighting conditions.....

Thanks again to EVERYBODY who helped me out here.