P850 review

[Atindra]

P 850 is in November-2005 upcoming reviews list on this site. Goodnews.
I think it may get delayed (due to Jeff is moving) but Jeff does a commending job by providing lots of reviews everymonth in this overcrowded digital camera market.
Thanks Jeff.
Atindra

[Risky Business]

I was considering this camera as a gift for my in-laws primarily due to its price point compared to my camera. I think I'll take a pass on this one after reading the review here.

The 850 is just not up to par with the competition in the crowded UZ market. The review on this site criticizes its 'fuzzy' images, poor high ISO performance (unusable 400/800), below average battery life, poor LCD resolution, poor low light visibility on LCD and EVF, poor low light focusing, poor manual focus, poor handling, loud zoom, painfully slow startup time (3.5 seconds!), min. focus distance in macro mode (10cm!), etc.

[Techie419]

The camera is not as all bad as it sounds.
Go and try one out before you decide against it.
I own one and have been very pleased with it.

Here are my comments on those apparent "drawbacks".

1) Fuzzy images
This could happen with a subject very close to the camera when not in macro mode... or if the focus is not aimed or locked on the subject. But in my experiences with this model I did not find a serious problem with images being "soft focused". The image stabilization made images more crisp than ever.

2) Noise in ISO 400

There is not one UZ camera that has low noise in this ISO. The Panasonic has got reviews at epinions which users complained about noise in that model. Seriously,, this is a sub $500 price point camera, what do you expect? If you want to get low noise in ISO 400/800 then step up to a Digital SLR like the Canon Rebel or Nikon D70. I wonder what a user/reviewer of this camera expects it to do.

3) Battery Life

It was ranked #3 on the list when compared to other competitive cameras. And that makes the battery life bad? Myself, I took hundreds of photos with this camera at a time and it lasts and lasts. The battery life is not at all below average.

4) poor LCD resolution, poor low light visibility on LCD and EVF

Personally, I found 2.5 inch LCD to be a great feature and also of high quality. It did not have poor resolution in my opinion - compare it to the small little tiny LCD in the Canon IS. This is a great feature of this camera and one of largest LCD screens in it's class.

The EVF is also good quality and is adjustable. What is the problem?

5) poor low light focusing

its better than the kodak z740 even without the AF lamp. If you want great low light focusing then you have to get a camera with a laser or infrared senor, and pay a much higher price for it. You wont get much better than the P850 in low light focusing.

6) poor manual focus

It's the first Kodak that even has manual focus. It works if you know how to use it. And if manual focus is that important than you need an SLR.

7) poor handling

no problems in that category

8) loud zoom

finally something I can agree with. It does have loud zoom, especially compared to other competitive models. And with my P850 I didnt get the movie mode to "silence" the zoom motor (it can be heard well) so that is another dissapointment I had.

9) painfully slow startup time (3.5 seconds!)

3.5 seconds is painfully slow? not in my opinion. How fast is the fastest? 2.5 seconds? Is this even a consideration for a serious photographer? Come on!

10) min. focus distance in macro mode (10cm!),

If macro is what you need a camera for than you have the wrong camera.
It is a HIGH ZOOM camera. They are not known for great macros.

[Rambler358]

I'll still take the P850 and its small flaws over the S2's too sharp (or too soft) and overexposed images, no record live histogram, low light focus errors, noisy images above ISO 200, difficult to see viewfinder and small LCD, too much CA and PF, and that it's limited to the highest shutter speed usable at wide aperatures. And don't even get me started on the colors, and memory card problems!

But enjoy your S2, and we'll enjoy our Kodaks. :D

[swgod98]

I'll still take the P850 and its small flaws over the S2's too sharp (or too soft) and overexposed images, no record live histogram, low light focus errors, noisy images above ISO 200, difficult to see viewfinder and small LCD, too much CA and PF, and that it's limited to the highest shutter speed usable at wide aperatures. And don't even get me started on the colors, and memory card problems!

But enjoy your S2, and we'll enjoy our Kodaks. :D

Nobody even mentioned an S2 in this thread yet. Don't be bitter.

[Risky Business]

Yes - this isn't an 850 vs. S2 thread. Yeesh - take a chill pill...

Anyway... I understand how easy it is to get defensive about a significant purchase decision but let me clarify a few things that I find unacceptable about the 850 and why we will likely by a different camera for my in-laws.

1) USB 2.0 (High Speed) - they don't want to use a card reader - they don't want to fumble around with taking the card in and out and they travel a lot and will be downloading to various PCs and their notebook when around town. 2.0 high speed should be the min. standard for all digicams going forward.

2) 3.5 seconds for start-to-record time is ABYSMAL - read: lost shots. Argue this point all you want but when your subjects are primarily kids/grandkids, it would be a shame to miss spontaneous priceless moments due to startup lag when there are better options out there, i.e. start-to-record time for the Canon S2 is 1.3 seconds, 2.1 seconds for the Sony DSC-H1, and less of a comparable is the Panasonic FZ30 at 1.1 seconds.

3) Low light focusing - how can it NOT get "much better than the P850" when it doesn't even have an AF assist lamp!

Anyway, a lot of it is personal preference but I would suggest that an average rating/recommendation is not too out of line for this camera given all the little 'niggles'. However, with that said, it is probably well suited to many people, especially at its competitive price point.

Enjoy your cameras!

[Rambler358]

Yes - this isn't an 850 vs. S2 thread. Yeesh - take a chill pill...
Well, it's obvious you chose the S2 over the P850 - so yeah, it comes into play. And I was simply stating my opinion of why I picked the P850 over the S2, I hope that's okay. And there's no need to take a chill pill here - it's quite cold enough where I'm at already! ;)

[Rambler358]

Nobody even mentioned an S2 in this thread yet. Don't be bitter.
Sheesh, someone's a bit defensive about their Canon. :eek:

[Risky Business]

Well, it's obvious you chose the S2 over the P850 - so yeah, it comes into play. And I was simply stating my opinion of why I picked the P850 over the S2, I hope that's okay. And there's no need to take a chill pill here - it's quite cold enough where I'm at already! ;)

Rambler - your selective reading skills are quite acute... If I was only pro-S2, I wouldn't have been considering the 850 for my in-laws now, right? Quite honestly, I was hoping that the 850 would fit the bill 'cause here in Canada, it truly fits the 'bill', i.e. cheaper!

And FYI - I bought my S2 before the 850 was released - I didn't buy it 'over' the 850 (but I probably would have...). Actually, I may have considered the 880 if it was out when I bought my camera but I would miss the image stabilization...

[swgod98]

Sheesh, someone's a bit defensive about their Canon. :eek:

Well, I wasn't going to bother defending the S2, but I found your accusations a bit random since you went off on a tangent for no apparent reason about how the S2 sucks...Now that I've come back, I figure maybe I should defend it...just a little...So people who are reading this don't get the wrong impression from someone who is throwing out (some) garbage that is mostly unfounded.

S2's too sharp (or too soft) and overexposed images: Some people think the images are soft...My camera seems to provide me good images and I have no reason to complain (maybe the phrase, ignorance is bliss, is appropriate here? Though I have worked with/tested many Olympus and Canon model cameras).

No record live histogram: I haven't missed it, but it would be a nice feature to have.

Low light focus errors: Don't they all? *boggle* The P850 doesn't even have an autofocus assist light...

Noisy images above ISO 200: I agree, the S2 really needs to have dSLR performance...again *boggle*

Difficult to see viewfinder and small LCD: I haven't had problems and I shoot outdoors (soccer) all the time.

Too much CA and PF: Can't argue this point. Though they all exibit PF.

It's limited to the highest shutter speed usable at wide aperatures: The S2 goes down to 1/3200. The P850 only goes to 1/1000. How can you even bring this "feature" up as if it were an issue!? lol

And don't even get me started on the colors: The colors are quite representative of the subject matter, are they not? It's the Kodak that oversaturates things...

And memory card problems!: I have had 0 memory problems. Or maybe it's because there are 100x more S2's out there than P850's and we hear a lot more problems because of that.

It's perfectly fine to discuss camera features (+ or -), but this is a discussion forum to help other people with their purchases (before and after). Going off about how a camera sucks (without any details) doesn't help anyone make the right decision for themselves.

[Rambler358]

Rambler - your selective reading skills are quite acute... If I was only pro-S2, I wouldn't have been considering the 850 for my in-laws now, right? Quite honestly, I was hoping that the 850 would fit the bill 'cause here in Canada, it truly fits the 'bill', i.e. cheaper!
Okay, fair enough. However, when you come out and say the P850 is just not up to par when that's just simply not the case. Sure - no camera is perfect, and what suits one might not suit another. But telling a prospective buyer the camera is sub-par when it's not, just isn't helping anything.

[Rambler358]

Well, I wasn't going to bother defending the S2, but I found your accusations a bit random since you went off on a tangent for no apparent reason about how the S2 sucks...Now that I've come back, I figure maybe I should defend it...just a little...So people who are reading this don't get the wrong impression from someone who is throwing out (some) garbage that is mostly unfounded.
I concur, as that's exactly pretty much what happened with the P850 comment. And again - no camera is perfect, and people will have to determine for themselves if something will work for them.

[Techie419]

let me clarify a few things that I find unacceptable about the 850 and why we will likely by a different camera for my in-laws.

1) USB 2.0 (High Speed) - they don't want to use a card reader - they don't want to fumble around with taking the card in and out and they travel a lot and will be downloading to various PCs and their notebook when around town. 2.0 high speed should be the min. standard for all digicams going forward.

2) 3.5 seconds for start-to-record time is ABYSMAL - read: lost shots. Argue this point all you want but when your subjects are primarily kids/grandkids, it would be a shame to miss spontaneous priceless moments due to startup lag when there are better options out there, i.e. start-to-record time for the Canon S2 is 1.3 seconds, 2.1 seconds for the Sony DSC-H1, and less of a comparable is the Panasonic FZ30 at 1.1 seconds.

3) Low light focusing - how can it NOT get "much better than the P850" when it doesn't even have an AF assist lamp!


it's surprising the attention on this thread - but all comments are welcome.
My original comments are posted earlier, and at this time I will ADD to them in response to the replies posted.

First, if you are going to judge a camera by whether or not it is high speed USB, that is ridiculas. (sorry im just being flat out blunt). I mean, seriously, you would rather have a camera with a small LCD, no histogram, and no hotshoe, than one that is NOT high speed USB 2.0? that makes no sense it all.

In my humble opinion, you should look at the most important consideration when chosing your camera, and that should easily be "PICTURE QUALITY". Who cares about the rest really? It doesnt matter if it has a ton of features or is USB 2.0 or starts up fast IF the picture quality is bad.

That brings me to the other noted issue - startup time. Having a 3.6 second startup time is NOT a reason to knock this model, It is not unusually slow. I could see like 5 seconds or more, but still,, the compact P&S cams have faster startup times, and so do some SLR's. If that is all you care about, yeah, then this is not the camera for you. But is it worth spending an extra $150 or more just to save a second on startup?

Now the low light comments - ALL UZ cameras have this problem!!! once again I REPEAT, ALL UZ cameras have this problem. You can NOT focus a LONG distance in low light, even WITH an AF assist lamp. This lamp feature is way too overrated. I had a Z740 once, and it has the lamp, and the cam STILL had poor low light focus (go figure). Not to mention the Canon does not have an AF assist lamp EITHER.

Finally..this comment CRACKED ME UP!



a lot of it is personal preference but I would suggest that an average rating/recommendation is not too out of line for this camera given all the little 'niggles'. However, with that said, it is probably well suited to many people, especially at its competitive price point.


yep, it really is "personal preference". You prefer features that arent that important for MOST camera users, and therefore kodak did NOT include them in this P850. (but as for model preferences, if you ask me I prefer the Digital Rebel XT or the Nikon D70..well if I had a choice for a cam at the SAME P850 price)

"Niggles"??? is that a slang term for "flaws" "problems"??
I'm not sure. But other cameras are packed full of "niggles" as well. The Canon IS is PACKED FULL of "niggles" - And you pay much more for them.

What is boils down to is that you do not care about price, you do not care so much about picture quality, but absolutely have to have a camera that fires up quick and has USB 2.0. right?

So what is the bottom line?

For around $317 now you get a 12X high optical zoom, high quality digital camera, with image stabilization, hotshoe, histogram, manual focus, 2.5 LCD, optional docking system, tons of scene modes, many optional accessories, and the list goes on... What more could you ask for?

Find another P & S camera that does ALL of that... seriously.
I challenge you to do so and then I will sit down and be quiet.

[Rex914]

Show me a store that sells it for $317 (Dell coupons do NOT count). The rock bottom in PriceGrabber is $360, the lowest from a reputable place is $365, and the online average is $400.

[Techie419]

Show me a store that sells it for $317 (Dell coupons do NOT count). The rock bottom in PriceGrabber is $360, the lowest from a reputable place is $365, and the online average is $400.

yes my reference was with the Dell coupons. They do lower the price, right?

I visited pricegrabber and found the Canon S2 IS for a lowest price of about $440. (and an online average even higher). So I can fairly estimate a $75 to $100 difference, give or take few dollars.

Also worth noting, the S2 is a "comparable" UZ cam, but without a hotshoe.
What happens when you want to actually use the higher zoom?
The onboard flash wont reach, so what's the purpose?

(ok i was almost done with this post until it came to me another reason why i got the 850 instead of the S2 - the batteries. The Canon S2 takes 4 AA batteries and has no docking capability. If you want functionality in addition to picture quality the dock is extra icing on the cake - dock it, charge it, and forget it. But then again, the reviews stress the "limited" battery life of the Kodak Lithium Ion. Personally I have no problem with battery life in this product at all, and the dock makes it that much easier to recharge. But if youre on the go and really need more juice, just pick up a spare - problem solved)

[Rex914]

That's actually an interesting point I was about to get to. For one reason or another, Canon and Sony cameras (for the most part) seem to have a lot better value retention than Kodak cameras. Not necessarily a good thing though for them since that equates to higher street prices. Oddly enough, the much newer Canon A610 and A620 have fallen down $50-$60 already despite being on the market for barely a few months.

In principle, the S2, H1, P850, and FZ5 should cost the same. They list for $450 each. But for some reason, the H1 and S2 have more or less remained somewhere in between $400 and $450 (not counting all those $75 gift cards that are being handed out at BB and CC all the time now) while the P850, despite being the new camera, has plummeted down below $400. I have no idea how this happens or why since the retailers set the price. Just an interesting observation...

[Techie419]

In principle, the S2, H1, P850, and FZ5 should cost the same. They list for $450 each. But for some reason, the H1 and S2 have more or less remained somewhere in between $400 and $450 (not counting all those $75 gift cards that are being handed out at BB and CC all the time now) while the P850, despite being the new camera, has plummeted down below $400. I have no idea how this happens or why since the retailers set the price. Just an interesting observation...

You will find across the board that all Kodak models have fallen in price, not just the P850.
This is believed to be partly a result of the holiday season and also Kodak's aggressive efforts to capture the market for digicams.

according to this site (http://blog.tmcnet.com/gadgets/digital-cameras/digital-camera-shopping-tip-go-with-the-leaders.asp)

"For the fourth straight quarter, Kodak has maintained its lead over Canon and Sony (both tied for second place) as its market share rose to 21.3% from 19.8%. Canon and Sony had a 17.7% market share (Sony losing share and Canon gaining.)"

Sony is commonly known for price fixing. They will not allow retailers to offer their product(s) below a certain established price - no exceptions! There can be consequences to retailers for not abiding by this policy (fines, ect). Look at the Playstation, it is pretty much the same price no matter where you go. Much similiar is Apple and their Ipod products.

Kodak, on the other hand, seems to focus on gaining marketshare rather than pure profit.
It's a pretty simple business philosphy really. The more sold, the more people will talk about them, leading to increased sales, and then profits.

Plus Kodak makes $$$ from their Easy Share printing service, which pads their pockets as well.

Whether you sell sell 1 million at 5% markup or 500,000 at 10%, it's still the same amount.

[Rex914]

Sony's really going downhill lately in all respects, so I'm not surprised at all to see this happening. In the very end (or even in a few years), I see Canon and Kodak gobbling up the lion's share of the market with Sony, Panasonic and Fuji fighting for the rest. Olympus, Pentax, KM and Nikon may eventually just back out of the non-DSLR realm entirely. I just hope that the dropout of players doesn't lead to product stagnation like it has in other markets.

The other problem I see is that digicams are at the point where they hardly need replacement every few years. This is already starting to manifest itself in the low-mid range market with dropping sales. In the high end and in the DSLR realm, things are still evolving, and we're seeing continued growth there.

The downward trend in prices is good, but I don't know what it spells out in the long run. If the price wars go too far, we may end up seeing cost-cutting going on like we see in computers (Dell vs. HP), and that may not be in everbody's best interest. Nevertheless, I'm glad to see that Kodak's made a turnaround in the past few years and that Canon is putting its massive profits into R&D. :)

[Rambler358]

(not counting all those $75 gift cards that are being handed out at BB and CC all the time now)
Well please point me to a BB or CC that's doing that! :eek: I've been to both my local BB and CC 3x in the past month and have yet to see any of those. :confused: Not to mention that I also get both their sales emails.

[swgod98]

Ok guys, I think this is getting a little out of hand here. I mean, we can talk all day about the issues the S2 has vs. the issues the P850 has. And don't be mistaken, because they BOTH have some glaring issues.

I'd like to comment briefly on Techies remarks. First, about USB 1.0. It is definitely not a requirement and has no bearing on the outcome of your images. HOWEVER, have you tried downloading 2 gigs of information via USB 1.0? Seriously, it's not pretty. USB 2.0 is nice to have and that cannot be argued...

Second, Techie, you stated that PICTURE QUALITY is the most important thing when choosing a camera. Well, if that is the truth, then why did you buy a P850? Uh huh...that's what I thought. Because you had to compromise on the features you wanted vs. the quality you were getting. If you think the P850 has better image quality than the S2, that's fine. I will not argue this one way or the other. My only point to be made is that both can produce very nice pictures.

Startup time on the P850. 3+ seconds is not the end of the world. But, for some people it matters. If it causes frustration, or missed shots, then that is good enough reason to count it as a negative. Not everyone will.

The Canon (S2 IS) DOES have an AF assist lamp.

Hotshoe...Not everyone wants (or needs) a hotshoe. These are UZ camera's. They are meant to be used outdoors. Sure indoors as well. But, I know I didn't buy my S2 to use it indoors. Besides, a hotshoe flash is extra cost.

The docking capability is also a nice plus for the P850, if you want to spend the extra for it. Add this to the flash and you're paying more for your camera than the S2. Sure, these are added features, but isn't your whole argument about paying more for unecessary items? Docking = unecessary. To me, flash = unecessary. btw, there are 2 n's in unecessary.

I'm trying to be fair here to both camera's. I think the P850 has it's merits. And when I purchased my S2, the P850 wasn't even out yet. But, I did choose my S2 for a reason. And the P850 does not have any features (over the S2) that I am interested in, in an UZ. Namely:

Compact size (for an UZ).
Video mode w/ still capture during video (yes this is a feature I use at swim events).
The swivel display has come in handy for many macro shots.
Unlimited burst mode of 2.4 fps (probably most important to me).

Does the S2 have the best image quality? Nope.
Do I care? Nope.
Does it produce good quality images? You bet. There are posts to prove it.

[Rex914]

Well please point me to a BB or CC that's doing that! :eek: I've been to both my local BB and CC 3x in the past month and have yet to see any of those. :confused: Not to mention that I also get both their sales emails.

Check the Weekly ad inserts. I catch them all the time. It tends to alternate between the H1 and the S2 each week or so.

[Rambler358]

First, about USB 1.0. It is definitely not a requirement and has no bearing on the outcome of your images. HOWEVER, have you tried downloading 2 gigs of information via USB 1.0? Seriously, it's not pretty. USB 2.0 is nice to have and that cannot be argued...
Personally, I use and would recommend a USB 2.0 card reader.

Hotshoe...Not everyone wants (or needs) a hotshoe. These are UZ camera's. They are meant to be used outdoors. Sure indoors as well. But, I know I didn't buy my S2 to use it indoors. Besides, a hotshoe flash is extra cost.
True, but it's nice to have the option if you want. Most people grow into their cameras and find themselves buying more options for it as their capability grows with the camera.


I'm trying to be fair here to both camera's. I think the P850 has it's merits. And when I purchased my S2, the P850 wasn't even out yet. But, I did choose my S2 for a reason.
Like I stated, everyone has their own wants and needs. :)

[Rambler358]

Check the Weekly ad inserts. I catch them all the time. It tends to alternate between the H1 and the S2 each week or so.
Okay - you didn't mention those $75 things were specific for those cameras.

[Techie419]

First, about USB 1.0. It is definitely not a requirement and has no bearing on the outcome of your images. HOWEVER, have you tried downloading 2 gigs of information via USB 1.0? Seriously, it's not pretty. USB 2.0 is nice to have and that cannot be argued...

I'm really enjoying this chat. And swgod you know I will have a response. :D

USB is NOT necessary IF you use a memory card reader. You simply take out the memory card and PLUG IT IN to you PC card reader (which is high speed USB 2.0) or your attached PC card reader.

Using a card reader is less complicated than plugging the cam into the PC. It doesnt require power to the camera also. AND for Kodak if you have a dock and do not use the Kodak software (I prefer other sware), then transfer is easier by card reader anyway.
Again, USB speed is not a real issue.



Second, Techie, you stated that PICTURE QUALITY is the most important thing when choosing a camera. Well, if that is the truth, then why did you buy a P850? Uh huh...that's what I thought. Because you had to compromise on the features you wanted vs. the quality you were getting. If you think the P850 has better image quality than the S2, that's fine. I will not argue this one way or the other. My only point to be made is that both can produce very nice pictures.


Yep, picture quality is important. And both cams have decent quality. Some users will prefer one over the other obviously (for various reasons).

"Well if thats the truth, then why did you buy the P850, uhh huh thats what i thought."

You dont have to get all snippy about it. It's obvious why I bought the P850. I like the picture quality as well as all of the OTHER things that are in the complete package of the product - all of which I have highlighted in detail here. I did not compromise on any features. It was a cut and dry decision. To me there was no competition. I had $350 to spend and wanted to "grow" with the cam, and to me that meant hot shoe capaibility.


Startup time on the P850. 3+ seconds is not the end of the world. But, for some people it matters. If it causes frustration, or missed shots, then that is good enough reason to count it as a negative. Not everyone will.

exactly. but how big of a negative is it to the mass audience that Kodak targets? seriously now...


The Canon (S2 IS) DOES have an AF assist lamp.


Some said no, some said yes. I dont know but I will take your word for it, thanks.


Hotshoe...Not everyone wants (or needs) a hotshoe. These are UZ camera's. They are meant to be used outdoors. Sure indoors as well. But, I know I didn't buy my S2 to use it indoors. Besides, a hotshoe flash is extra cost.

Ok, I really must confess. My ultimate cam is really a digital SLR, mostly because it is flexible and versatile. I like the ability to be creative and EXPAND on the capabilities. Having a cam that I can grow with is important (to me anyway). If you do not want to take indoor shots with a high range flash then you do not need a hotshoe. To me it's a worthy bonus, and it seems Kodak included it because of the high demand from other users who wanted it.



The docking capability is also a nice plus for the P850, if you want to spend the extra for it. Add this to the flash and you're paying more for your camera than the S2. Sure, these are added features, but isn't your whole argument about paying more for unecessary items?


I dont mind paying extra for accessories if it does the following:
1) make things easier (the dock makes charging simple, and its $50)
2) improve the capabilities of the camera (an external flash adds versatility)

But in summary, again everyone will have different preferences, wants or needs, when it comes to cameras. Thanks for your comments :)

[coldrain]

Personally, I use and would recommend a USB 2.0 card reader.

True, but it's nice to have the option if you want. Most people grow into their cameras and find themselves buying more options for it as their capability grows with the camera.


Like I stated, everyone has their own wants and needs. :)
Haha, your arguements to defend the choice of the P850 are a bit funny now.
AGAINST the S2 IS you have that it uses standard size AA batteries, even though you acknowledge that the P850 has a short battery life. Why? so you can just put it on the docking station and it will power it up.

Then, you say you just use a USB card reader! This is the exact opposite!!!! Now with batteries it is a bother to have to take them out, but with a card it is not a problem all of a sudden? Really, having two sets of AA rechargables is sooo much more convenient, and try going on holidays with a docking station. Sure, how much fun you will have, having to go back to the hotel or whatever to have to put the camera onto the dock to wait till it is charged so you can use the camera again.

And seriously, techie below your post even tries to tell that a card reader is easier than plugging the USB cable into your camera. Even more funny...

Easier: Turn camera off, turn around, open card compartment, get card out, find card reader, plug into USB in front of computer (hopefully it has a USB connection in front), put card in, wait for computer to recognize it, do-your-thing-with-the-photos, tell computer you want to have the card back, take card out, put back into the camera, ready.

Less easy: Put the USB cable that you keep plugged into a USB port at the back of your computer into the camera, do-your-thing-with-the-photos, unplug USB cable from camera.

Yes, I can REALLY see the card reader being the easy option!!!:rolleyes:

And startup time really IS an issue. Especially if you have limitted battery time like with the P850, and you can not keep it on all day! A lot of quick shots you will miss.

The P850 maybe then has better image quality? No, it actually does not... Then what are its pro's? The bigger LCD? hmmm.... You can not know just how valuable the swivelable display of the S2 IS is, it makes shots possible that you otherwise never could make... a truely great feature. And even though that makes its LCD a bit smaller, it is of good quality.

And a hot shoe? Well.... No one buys an UZ for flash with tele, you can never achieve that no matter what flash you decide to put on top. Unless you use the tele part for details a few yards away... but as you may know, flash photography does not give very attractive photos, and so it mostly is used just to make some snap shots possible of people in darker situations.

To buy a compact camera is usually because it is compact, I am pretty sure almost no one will buy a P850 and then put a big flash unit on top.

[Techie419]

And seriously, techie below your post even tries to tell that a card reader is easier than plugging the USB cable into your camera. Even more funny...

Easier: Turn camera off, turn around, open card compartment, get card out, find card reader, plug into USB in front of computer (hopefully it has a USB connection in front), put card in, wait for computer to recognize it, do-your-thing-with-the-photos, tell computer you want to have the card back, take card out, put back into the camera, ready.

Less easy: Put the USB cable that you keep plugged into a USB port at the back of your computer into the camera, do-your-thing-with-the-photos, unplug USB cable from camera.

Yes, I can REALLY see the card reader being the easy option!!!:rolleyes:


Actually the main reason I like the card reader is because I use several memory cards (5 total). Each card has different shots on them. And while shooting I will often swap cards. It's just my personal preference.

Could I transfer pics with my USB cable if I wanted to? sure.
Could I use my dock? sure, absolutely.

which method you use is up to you. To be honest, either works fine.


And startup time really IS an issue. Especially if you have limitted battery time like with the P850, and you can not keep it on all day! A lot of quick shots you will miss.

If you are shooting all day long then few cams will last powered ON for that ENTIRE period. It depends what you are shooting really. I do mostly nature, landscape shots, and do not need it to power on lightning fast in order to capture a sunset or nature scene. For children or animal shots, well a power on of 2.5 seconds vs. 3.5 may make a difference to some.


The P850 maybe then has better image quality? No, it actually does not... Then what are its pro's? The bigger LCD? hmmm.... You can not know just how valuable the swivelable display of the S2 IS is, it makes shots possible that you otherwise never could make... a truely great feature. And even though that makes its LCD a bit smaller, it is of good quality.

It's a matter of opinion which has the better image quality. Some like the Kodak color better, some not - it's all preference. But IMO they are BOTH comparable image quality.

The swivel may be a great feature for you. If it works and you like it, by all means use it. In using the cam, I prefer to review and/or show off my pics (directly on the cam) and the larger display beats the practical use of the swivel. But that's just me.


And a hot shoe? Well.... No one buys an UZ for flash with tele, you can never achieve that no matter what flash you decide to put on top. Unless you use the tele part for details a few yards away... but as you may know, flash photography does not give very attractive photos, and so it mostly is used just to make some snap shots possible of people in darker situations.

To buy a compact camera is usually because it is compact, I am pretty sure almost no one will buy a P850 and then put a big flash unit on top.

Again, it depends on what you use it for. What one buys a cam for another may have a total different use for.

"no one buys a UZ for flash?" why not? I did.
But I most likely use it for different shots than you do (i.e. I dont need a swivel LCD screen)
Also, it's true many digital SLR cams have hot shoes on top. So are you saying those don't get used in tele either?

You're obviously pro canon, for whatever reason.
And I am obviously pro kodak, for reasons I have highlighted in great detail in this thread. What works for one doesnt work for another. That's why there are so many to chose from.

[zip37602]

Have used the P850 for a week now. I am totally astounded at what this little rascal can do. Pictures very crisp and clean. The image stabilizer is amazing even at max focal length. I researched every camera in its price range and features for two weeks. I read the reviews, negative and positive, and decided it was the one for me. This is one little beauty I won't have to return after christmas! Happy holidays to all.

[Risky Business]

In the second post of this thread, I suggested that the P850 "is just not up to par with the competition in the crowded UZ market."

dpreview just posted their review of their camera and compared to the Panasonic FZ5, Panasonic FZ20, Sony DSC-H1, and Canon S2 IS that all received "HIGHLY RECOMMENDED" ratings, the Kodak P850 received a "RECOMMENDED" rating that in their words, "...just... ...scrapes a recommended, but a recommended with real reservations."

I'm not trying to stir the pot here. I'm just reiterating that the P850, while a good overall camera, is not nearly best in class.

Full review: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/kodakp850

[Techie419]

Have used the P850 for a week now. I am totally astounded at what this little rascal can do. Pictures very crisp and clean. The image stabilizer is amazing even at max focal length. I researched every camera in its price range and features for two weeks. I read the reviews, negative and positive, and decided it was the one for me. This is one little beauty I won't have to return after christmas! Happy holidays to all.

I have been "astounded" as well (obviously if you read previous posts)
the p850 is very new...
and over time, it will prove reliable and valuable

glad to see another happy user :)

[Techie419]

In the second post of this thread, I suggested that the P850 "is just not up to par with the competition in the crowded UZ market."

dpreview just posted their review of their camera and compared to the Panasonic FZ5, Panasonic FZ20, Sony DSC-H1, and Canon S2 IS that all received "HIGHLY RECOMMENDED" ratings, the Kodak P850 received a "RECOMMENDED" rating that in their words, "...just... ...scrapes a recommended, but a recommended with real reservations."

I'm not trying to stir the pot here. I'm just reiterating that the P850, while a good overall camera, is not nearly best in class.

Full review: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/kodakp850

Again, "What suits one does not suit another"
Everyone has different "preferences" or "likes/dislikes".
So whatever your opinion is of this model, it boils down to whether it suits your needs or preferences.

As for the p850 not being the "Best in it's class"??
Let's determine what "CLASS" really is. How is it defined?
If you are referring to UZ, then yes it's the same "class".

But, in my opinion, the p850 is NOT in the same "class" as the others. It is NOT in the same price range. It does NOT have the same features (2.5 LCD, hotshoe, SD Memory, video with zoom, manual focus, docking, ect,.. you get the idea). Yes, there are other cameras that are 'similar' in features/specs. But you simply cant compare it to others. There isn't any.

Someone please do me and everyone here a favor and LIST all of the cameras ON THE MARKET that have a minumum 12x optical lens, 2.5in LCD, IS, manual focus, AND hotshoe. List them out and we can "compare".

Though it may appear convenient to post a direct link to the detailed review, it's not particually necessary. If anyone here has not read that already, then they are definitely working backwards. (start with the review, check out the cam firsthand, then come here to talk about it).

Also, a published 'review' is only one person's individual 'evaluation'. It does not make it a statement of law or fact. There could be 50 reviewers and they all would give different 'ratings" based on what they (individually) feel is important, useful, or valuable (or not).

For example, if you like a hotshoe and big LCD and manual focus, then you may give the p850 a "HIGHLY RECOMMENDED" rating. If you like hi speed USB, or a swivel LCD, or fast startup then you would most likely rate the model lower on this "scale".

And for those deciding what camera to get, I will NOT recommend the p850. But likewise, I would NOT recommend the Sony H1, or the Canon S2, or the Panasonic FZ20 EITHER.

What I would recommend is making a list of specific things that are your individual personal preferences, and THEN select the camera that meets MOST of those requirements.

To sum it up, this cam is best defined as having "MASS MARKET appeal". It can be safe to assume Kodak (being the last in on the UZ with IS game) has done it's "homework", and thus has HIT the NAIL ON THE HEAD!!! (ok, well close to it anyway :) ) - with what MOST users would find valuable in their "preferences".

Looking forward to the next wave of digicams to roll out.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
You will see more cams much like the p850 - and some even better.
Then maybe we will have something to compare too.