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View Full Version : ist shallow? kit lens ok like D70?



MrSleep
09-08-2005, 03:26 AM
can the Pentax ist easily acheive the same shallow DOF compared to 350D/300D?

i think i read somewhere the image sensor on the Pentax ist is smaller, i think they were comparing to film not sure, is this true? how would it compare to 350D D70 for example?

there are two types of ist's, the more expensive and the much more cheaper.., whats the difference?

to further add to the confusion, here in Australia there are DS & DL version and both cost around the same price, whats with that?
should i go DL?

at first i had my heart set on the Nikon D70 after seeing the quality of pics taken with its kit lens.
the impression i got from the nikon was the piture comes out on the warmer tones which i like very much, could this be psychologial???
can i get the same color pallette with the Pentax compared to D70?

in your oppinon how do you think the ist lens kit stacks against the Nikon D70 lens kit?

how is the access to manual control on the ist?
for example the Nikon D50 has lost some manual control compared to its bigger D70, my worry is where does the ist sit?

i would apreciate any help for choosing my first DSLR.
thanks,

Owen

MatH
09-08-2005, 05:19 AM
I already answered you in the "sample pictures post" but here we go again

can the Pentax ist easily acheive the same shallow DOF compared to 350D/300D?
As far as I know it can. The depth of field depends on aperture size. the smaller the F number the shallower depth of field. The sensor in *Ist D, DS, DL, and forthcoming DS2 is practically the same as those in Nikons or Minolltas and has a crop factor of 1.5 while Canon 350D has a crop factor of 1.6, which means that 350D has a smaller sensor (I don't know about 300D)

there are two types of ist's, the more expensive and the much more cheaper.., whats the difference?
Are you talking about *Ist D?? Is it still available??!! As a first dSLR I'd deffinitelly recommend DL or DS.
About DS and DL
DL has
- 3 focus points
- pentamiror viewfinder with 96% coverage and 0,85 magnification
- continuus zoom avaliable in all modes
- bigger LCD display

DS has
- 11 focus points,
- bright pentaprism viewfinder with 95% coverage and a 0,95 magnification, which means that you see a bigger picture and can manually sharpen better.
- continuus zoom available only in "sport" mode
- smaller LCD with the same amount of pixels (It's sucessor DS2 will have the same lcd as DL)

Here DL is only 11,5% cheaper and I don't think that is "much cheaper"
I decided for DS because it has better viewfinder, and I don't miss any of the DL's features. I do't even use the continuus autofocus since it doenst focus as sharp as I want it. I rather manually focus in the direction of movement, wait for the subject to get in the focus and "clack" there it is.

can i get the same color pallette with the Pentax compared to D70?
Using Capture One for raw converting I found that you can get warmer tones if you set the camera color profile to Nikon D70 in the "workflow settings"

As for the kit lens I don't have experience with either of them.

MrSleep
09-08-2005, 10:10 AM
hi Math :) sorry for my double post, i thought it might get burried behind the threads there..

:D Math, you have answere a weeks worth of research in one go, thank you very very much, its apreciated greatly, blimey. :D

yes i was talking about the "D" version which seemed to be almost double the price???

anyways, it looks like i'll be going for the DS2 then, since i will mostly be using the cam in manual mode, none of the auto features would be of any use to me its why im going slr in the first place (from a95), long as i get instant access to most commonly used settings for exposure and focus, im happy.

are you saying there is a camera color profile in the ist??? or is that profile setting in software?
i dont mind doing a little post processing to get the D70 quality, how accurate is it in your oppinon??

that would be a paramount feature if it brings the warmer/brighter tones cause after having had a look at the picture samples at dpreview, i noticed the ist to be more on the cooler/darker side when compared to D70.
not that its a bad thing, that has its place to... for example you must of seen the "watch" pic comparason of istDS to 350D on WhiteWalker's thread, the ist looked much more in context imo, however as i mentioned it so many times, it would be nice to get that brigher/warmer tone for another context.

i would love to see some before and after shot of D70 profiling, maybe you know a link. :o

thanks again Math, cheers :)

MatH
09-09-2005, 02:55 AM
In camera you can choose only between sRGB and Adobe RGB color spaces but they are not relevant to RAW format. You can choose Nikon D70 profile only when postprocessing PEF (Pentax RAW) in some third party converters (C1 yes, RSE no).
If you don't mind postprocessing I believe you can get just as good images as from D70. I was using D70 profile too, but then I found that IMO vegetation has better greens when using DS profile, especially when using Sigma 18-50 2.8 which has a warmer tone.

I hope I find some time to post a few "before and after" pics.

MrSleep
09-09-2005, 11:41 PM
thanks again Math your help is very much apreciated.

one more question if i may. :p

is it possible to use the color profile thing in jpeg mode so i can try with canon a95 perhaps???

if so where can i get one? whos the Taj Mahal of color profiling?

btw, dont stress about the pics, no biggie. ;)

MatH
09-12-2005, 06:48 AM
Here ar some images. First converted using DS color profile, then converted using D70 v2 color profile.

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/8238/imgp090726nv.jpg

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5916/imgp090742tl.jpg


http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9787/macka115ok.jpg

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/9867/macka121fq.jpg


http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/9262/travagrmovje124fi.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/1002/travagrmovje137ld.jpg


Difference is barely noticeable and if this isn't enough you can manually adjust white ballance towards warmer collors.
You can also make jpegs warmer with just about every program that has some photo editing capabilities (ACDSee 7, Paint Shop Pro 7 or later).

MatH
09-12-2005, 03:05 PM
Seems like you can't set color temperature in ACDSee :confused:
In PSP you can thou.

MrSleep
09-18-2005, 02:13 AM
hay Math thanks for the pre post example. ;) I realy cant tell the difference.

after scouring thousands of pics on the istD,DS,DL at photosig & pbase i discovered this. http://www.pbase.com/bitonal/pentax_ist_ds&page=all
to my eyes these are stunning pics.

my issue was not with the cam, i want some primes.

I LOVE THE PENTAX QUALITY!

egarrard
09-20-2005, 08:54 PM
Wow! The D70 processing looks a lot better. I suppose it could be matched with curves though. Thanks for sharing that comparison.