FZ30 and SD memory

[stevekwiz]

I am new to Panasonic and SD cards, and am waiting for my FZ30. What is the largest SD card that the FZ30 will be able to use? What is the fastest that the camera can write to an SD card? Are the off-brand cards as reliable as ones like Sandisk? Obviously I'm trying to decide which of the many SD cards to buy.

[genece]

All the FZ cameras can use a 2gb card so I am sure the FZ30 can also.
And I should know later on today if the FZ30 can benefit from the 20mb/s cards.
The other FZ's can not really benefit from anything over 5mb/s even though some will tell you they can.
But it does not hurt to use faster cards there is no in camera benefit.
I have these cards and they all work the same in the FZ10 and 20.

Panasonic
Simpletech pro
Lexar 32X
PQI 40X
Kinsmax 60X
Transcend 40X
Ridata 66X
And Corsair 66X ?

My Corsair card works fine but some other people have complained about them.

And people have as much trouble with Sandisk cards as any, so it is not worth paying more for them.

This seems to be a great price on a good card from a good retailer.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820183156

I am probably going to get a couple of these if there is any benefit to the extra fast cards

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820183184&ATT=Memory+Flash+Memory+&CMP=OTC-17exta6

[stevekwiz]

Gene, thanks for the information. I'm glad that I can use up to 2 Gig cards.

Do you have any idea how one card can be faster, sometimes WAY faster, than another when there are no moving parts?

[genece]

I would have to leave that to someone that understands the Technology.
I have watched it go from under 2mb/s to over 20mb/s but I do not have a clue how it works.
But if you have a card that should be or was faster try an in camera format it can help at times.



.

[JMK]

I've found on the FZ30 that if your SD card has a loose locking tab, when you insert the card in the camera something inside pushes the tab back and the card locks making it useless. This happens on my Digital Visions 256M (EL-Cheapo) Card, since the locking tab just floats inside the groove in the SD card. My Panasonic 256M card has a detent for the locking tab and works fine.

Will the Card work if I remove the Locking tab from the card ???????
I need a bigger card anyway.

The manual says that it will take 2g cards and that you need a transfer rate of at least 10m/sec.

[adamx97]

It seems that some SD cards stop operating if you execute the Panasonic Cleanup memory card function.

I found this to be the case on an Adata card that I had, and had to return it. That said, I asked for another adata, and I don't plan to clean it up in the future. I do plan to format it, because i would be very surprised if that caused an issue.

I think the ultimate test of a compatible card for this camera is whether it's fast enough (66x or 9MB write speed) and whether it can support the Cleanup function.

I found only one note on the web warning about the cleanup function, and that was warning about the issue for the Toshiba card (http://www.toshiba.co.jp/p-media/english/compati/sd_list.htm).

Be careful, if in doubt, don't clean it up! It seems to make the card permanently unuseable. I tried every trick in the book and could not recover the useability of the card.

[David Metsky]

Do you have any idea how one card can be faster, sometimes WAY faster, than another when there are no moving parts?
No moving parts doesn't mean that the chips don't have different designs. There are no moving parts in a computer CPU but some are clearly faster than others.

-dave-

[Balrog]

Do you have any idea how one card can be faster, sometimes WAY faster, than another when there are no moving parts?
Simple analogy - take a lightbulb vs a radiator. Both have no moving parts, yet you plug 'em in and one gets hot MUCH faster than the other.

[linux-works]

hi adam,

have you tried to access the raw device (the card) under a non-windows environ?

I'd be curious if you booted a knoppix linux cdrom (for example) and tried to 'dd' the card and zero it out.

also, it could have hosed the partition table - you can very easily init and create a new part. table under linux.

so before saying its 'perm' killed, I'd try a real o/s first ;)

(formating won't do anything to fix a hosed partition table..)

[Gordoaus]

Hi guys,
Interesting subject to say the least.
I have a Ridata 512 meg 150x Pro SD card in my camera. Initially it was FAST, now it is approx half speed to what it was.
Cause: Format and cleanup in camera. Result = Disappointed big time.
Formatted with everything I can get my hands on, result same ole same ole.
Have not tried Linux for this purpose of restoreing the card format etc etc.
Am going to buy another Ridata 512meg 150x SD card even if it do not get the one I have now working as it was.
My appraisal of the speed difference is about equal to USB2 versus USB1.1 data transfer. However, when there is a major drop in speed one tends to think it is way worse than it really is. On checking with a new card I expect it to not be that bad so when I get a new one this weekend I will test it and let you know what the result actually is between the two cards.
From what I have gleaned off the internet, 133x SD or above is most desireable in the FZ30 so fast shots are not held up by slow record times during shooting pics.
Am going on a 3 week trip as of this weekend so I will be taking lots of shots and hopefully learning what the FZ30 is all about.
Any tips anyone can give me on the movie mode would be appreciated. Have not delved into this aspect at all so am as green as green can get :)
Happy shooting,
Gordoaus:)

[Gordoaus]

My friend who was present at the time I was messing with the SD card in my camera said it was the FORMATTING that caused the problem and that the cleanup came after. From the discussion I had with my friend I remembered that was the actual sequence used.
It will not be applied the the new card :D

[David Metsky]

Formatting your card in your camera should not cause any slowdown. How did you measure the before and after speed?

-dave-

[rookieFZ30]

hi guys, im also looking into buying a SD card. i want to get a high quality
card that is fast and will preform well on the fz30. should i go with a panasonic
brand? or are the other third party cards just as good? i was reading the earlier
comments about some cards not functioning properly after cleanup or formatting. what exactly does card cleanup and formatting do? what is the
difference between the two? like i said im in the market to get a quality card
(512mb) that is relaible and high preforming. any suggestions?

[David Metsky]

For the most part, memory cards are just chunks of memory that can be used in a variety of ways. When different devices (cameras, computers, PDAs) use the cards they may need to format the available memory in ways that make sense to the device, and not all of those formats are compatable.

Formatting is what the device does to put the memory in the right format for that device. If you only format your cards in the camera that you plan on using, you will have no problems. Sometimes people will reformat their cards while in the card reader on the computer, and that can cause problems since it'll be in the wrong format. It can be recovered, but sometimes it's a pain to do so .

There's no need to use Panasonic brand memory cards in your camera, you can use cards from just about any manufacturer. Check the perf characteristics that you are looking for against the specs even though that isn't always the easiest thing to do. :)

-dave-

[Gordoaus]

After a few more gray hairs appearing on the scalp I have come up with these findings.

Formatting and cleanup in FZ30 slowed the speed of the recording in camera by almost 2 secs for a TIFF pic.
I filled the RiData card to the point of overflow via computer and deleted the pics in camera.
Formatted the card in camera with no noticeable improvement in performance.
Used cleanup in camera and filled the card to overflow via pc and formatted with no delete in advance
Reformatted again in camera and the original speed regained itself.
In hindsight the said RiData card was NOT formatted in camera before the first picture was taken.
Relevant or not to this dilemma I do not know.
Here are my present findings of transfer speeds with this camera

68 jpg pics = 120 megs
Desktop system 3.2gb AMD cpu, 1 gig RAM with 2x80 gig SATA drives in raid 0 and XP
Using Ridata 150x Pro SD card via USB2 desktop port using Belkin MS-USD100-1 SD card reader. ( Belkin only reads SD/MM cards)
Time taken to cut from card to PC = 1min 59secs
Time taken to write back to SD card = 2 mins 39 secs
Time taken to copy from SD card = 2 mins 2 secs

Using Ridata 150x Pro SD card in 3 gig notebook

Time taken to copy from SD card via media slot = 2 mins 18 secs
Time taken to copy using Belkin SD card reader in USB2 port = 2 mins 18 secs
Time taken to cut using Belkin SD card reader in USB2 port = 2 mins 16 secs
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8mp TIFF pic recording speeds in FZ30 camera +/- .25 secs

Tiff image 22.8 mb and JPG averaged 1.44-1.51mb over 10 shots.
Using 24.3mb as a mean average it shows there is a big difference in recording speeds in camera.

Panasonic 32 mb SD card supplied with FZ30, 20 seconds delay from taking shot to ready for next shot.
Dane-Elec 512 mb SD card in FZ30, 20 seconds delay from taking shot to ready for next shot.
This site quotes Dane-Elec SD having read/write speeds of 3mb/sec.
http://www.digital-cameras.com/memory-cards/secure-digital/512-mb-sd-card-dane-elec.html
Ridata 512 mb 150x Pro in FZ30, 6 seconds delay from taking shot to being ready for next shot.

The Panasonic and Dane-Elec SD cards at 1.215 are quite slow in camera compared to the Ridata at 4.05.
If the Dane-Elec card is 3mb/sec read write then it would be fair to say that the RiData r/w is around 10.

From what I understand, the Pro versions of SD cards start at 133x. (Don't quote me on that tho)

Sunday I will have another SD Pro card to compare with what I already have and I will share my findings.:)

(Times taken using second hand on PC clock hence the +/- .25 sec)

[adamx97]

Hey guys,

Some answers to some of your questions:

My attempts to resurrect my adata card only went as far as Windows XP and ME. I didn't try Knoppix, maybe next time I will.

It's interesting that the format doesn't seem to recover the speed, which is what one of the other posters seem to be saying.

I bought a Ridata 66x 1 gig card and sent an email to their tech support asking them the same question, and showed them the Toshiba link saying Toshiba doesn't support it. As you can see below, Toshiba is one of the founders of the SDA spec, so I really wonder what Panasonic is doing with the cleanup function.

They kindly went out and found a Panasonic FZ30 and tested their card using a reasonable testing procedure (see below). They reported NO problem using the cleanup function. I definitely got the idea they were on a budget shoestring and went to a local camera dealer to do the test, but I must say they were very considerate to give it their attention.

From the Ridata Test report:
--start--
The following is the test procedure:

1. Format SD card
2. Take video to make card full
3. Delete all files
4. Take 10 pictures
5. Take a 10 second video
6. Clear the SD card with “Clean Up” function
7. Take a video to full to see any problem happen.
8. View the previous 10 pictures and video to see whether they are still alive.

After the test, all cards can get passed.


Right after FX9’s test, we went to local market to test Panasonic FZ30. Since FZ30’s price is high and is not widely displayed in most stores, we finally find one to have the test. However, we can only do one card test under the strict environment constraints.


The card is OK with the “CleanUp” function with the same test procedure shown above.

-- some deleted text ---

Based on the test we have done, we think 66X 1GB card should be OK for Panasonic “CleanUp” function. However, for safety reason, we suggest you make recommendation to your customer that before he is willing to do “CleanUp”, it’s better to backup his pictures on the card first since even Toshiba, one of the three founders of SDA, may not be compatible with “CleanUp” function.

-- end of ridata text ---

[everettf]

After a few more gray hairs appearing on the scalp I have come up with these findings.

Formatting and cleanup in FZ30 slowed the speed of the recording in camera by almost 2 secs for a TIFF pic.
I filled the RiData card to the point of overflow via computer and deleted the pics in camera.
Formatted the card in camera with no noticeable improvement in performance.
Used cleanup in camera and filled the card to overflow via pc and formatted with no delete in advance
Reformatted again in camera and the original speed regained itself.
In hindsight the said RiData card was NOT formatted in camera before the first picture was taken.
Relevant or not to this dilemma I do not know.
Here are my present findings of transfer speeds with this camera

68 jpg pics = 120 megs
Desktop system 3.2gb AMD cpu, 1 gig RAM with 2x80 gig SATA drives in raid 0 and XP
Using Ridata 150x Pro SD card via USB2 desktop port using Belkin MS-USD100-1 SD card reader. ( Belkin only reads SD/MM cards)
Time taken to cut from card to PC = 1min 59secs
Time taken to write back to SD card = 2 mins 39 secs
Time taken to copy from SD card = 2 mins 2 secs

Using Ridata 150x Pro SD card in 3 gig notebook

Time taken to copy from SD card via media slot = 2 mins 18 secs
Time taken to copy using Belkin SD card reader in USB2 port = 2 mins 18 secs
Time taken to cut using Belkin SD card reader in USB2 port = 2 mins 16 secs
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8mp TIFF pic recording speeds in FZ30 camera +/- .25 secs

Tiff image 22.8 mb and JPG averaged 1.44-1.51mb over 10 shots.
Using 24.3mb as a mean average it shows there is a big difference in recording speeds in camera.

Panasonic 32 mb SD card supplied with FZ30, 20 seconds delay from taking shot to ready for next shot.
Dane-Elec 512 mb SD card in FZ30, 20 seconds delay from taking shot to ready for next shot.
This site quotes Dane-Elec SD having read/write speeds of 3mb/sec.
http://www.digital-cameras.com/memory-cards/secure-digital/512-mb-sd-card-dane-elec.html
Ridata 512 mb 150x Pro in FZ30, 6 seconds delay from taking shot to being ready for next shot.

The Panasonic and Dane-Elec SD cards at 1.215 are quite slow in camera compared to the Ridata at 4.05.
If the Dane-Elec card is 3mb/sec read write then it would be fair to say that the RiData r/w is around 10.

From what I understand, the Pro versions of SD cards start at 133x. (Don't quote me on that tho)

Sunday I will have another SD Pro card to compare with what I already have and I will share my findings.:)

(Times taken using second hand on PC clock hence the +/- .25 sec)

You might want to check this forum about your computer, just so there is no confusing about amd cpu's. AMD doesn't make a 3.2 gig cpu.
http://forums.tweaktown.com/archive/index.php/t-18625.html.

I don't mean to nit pick. and I do know it is off subject. Please don't derail the thread.

[Gordoaus]

Enclosed attachment is a screengrab of my system specs regarding the cpu covering a comment that AMD do not make a 3200 cpu.

While I was away on my last trip I visited a friend who owned a camera store for decades (now retired) and gave him my camera to test out. My friend being a professional photographer, I was hoping I would grasp some techniques from him that I could use later. After working on a farm for a couple of weeks I returned to my friends place to see how he made out with the camera. He seemed to think that the FZ30 has now made his $6000 worth of Nikon film camera and multiple lens take a back seat for general photographic pics. He covered two weddings and a dance of some kind while he had the camera and had no need to use the Nikon. Top stuff I thought and now for the tips on getting good pics.
After some hours of explanations and tips I came away with more enthusiasm towards photography.
I searched for another Ridata card as I travelled around and eventually came across a 1 gig 150x SD Pro card in my friends old shop. Immediately visited him again to get his opinion about how to handle them in cameras and computers. His reply:
Rule #1 to 10....DO NOT do anything with the SD card via a computer other than to COPY, only COPY pics from the card. Do everything else in camera, basically formatting the card when you want to delete all pics. CLeanup is like defragmenting a hard drive on a computer.
My camera has taken more than 800 pics in two weeks or so and there has not been one glitch with the 1 gig card while following his recommendation.
While at my friends place we tested the speeds of the 512 and 1 gig cards which were basically the same transfer speeds, both within seconds of each other and the 1 gig a touch in front but not worth talking about.
The Belkin USB2 card reader that I used when I made my previous post was the problem and not the SD card it seems during transfers from the SD card.
However, that didn't explain the slow speed in camera of the 512 SD card.
The latest findings were that the Belkin would transfer about 20 megs or so at high speed and throttle back to a slower speed of about half. When I bought the 1gig Ridata SD card I also purchased a USB2 card reader that the shop tested for me after I told them of the problem I had had previously. Both cards appeared to work about the same speed as far as they were concerned too.
I am now using the 1 gig card in my FZ30 and my lady friend is using the 512meg SD card in her Minolta Z3 which pumped up the speed for it too.
The 150x SD Pro cards are my recommendation for the FZ30 when using 5mp and up.
Hope this explains some of the problems I was having earlier.
Keep kewl
Gordoaus