How do you store it all?

[eastbluffs]

OK; After 5 weeks with my new DSLR, my laptop's 20 gig E drive is about full.

It takes time to sort through it all and clean out the junk - and who's to say I know enough to say what's junk and what's not. I usually create a folder called "Picks" and copy the favorites there, but I don't have time to find all the favorites, and there may be some pretty good ones I just didn't happen to pick - or valuable because of content. So; with rare exception; I wind up keeping everything.

Good thing; now that I'm leaning Photoshop, and hearing about other tools, I'm glad I didn't toss those "too-dark" shots in the delivery room, or over exposed shots on a memorable day with my late father. My sister's calling for any shots of her and her daughter-in-law-to-be that I didn't think interesting at the time. Etc.

So; I'm wondering how you do it?

Make a DVD of each session? Permanently delete less than perfect results? Sort everything by date? Pile all the originals into searchable files (likely to never be seen again) and copy the favorites?

OK OK, I bought a Buffalo Tera Station (730 GB of network attached disk space, using redundant disk RAID 5 technology). But - its still a question of organization. And backing that thing up will become impossible.

I'm thinking numbered DVDs with proof sheets filed separately. Still; don't know a good quick proof-sheet print program.

[D70FAN]

OK; After 5 weeks with my new DSLR, my laptop's 20 gig E drive is about full.

It takes time to sort through it all and clean out the junk - and who's to say I know enough to say what's junk and what's not. I usually create a folder called "Picks" and copy the favorites there, but I don't have time to find all the favorites, and there may be some pretty good ones I just didn't happen to pick - or valuable because of content. So; with rare exception; I wind up keeping everything.

Good thing; now that I'm leaning Photoshop, and hearing about other tools, I'm glad I didn't toss those "too-dark" shots in the delivery room, or over exposed shots on a memorable day with my late father. My sister's calling for any shots of her and her daughter-in-law-to-be that I didn't think interesting at the time. Etc.

So; I'm wondering how you do it?

Make a DVD of each session? Permanently delete less than perfect results? Sort everything by date? Pile all the originals into searchable files (likely to never be seen again) and copy the favorites?

OK OK, I bought a Buffalo Tera Station (730 GB of network attached disk space, using redundant disk RAID 5 technology). But - its still a question of organization. And backing that thing up will become impossible.

I'm thinking numbered DVDs with proof sheets filed separately. Still; don't know a good quick proof-sheet print program.

I have a separate 250GB drive on a USB2.0HS adapter and back-up everything to DVD+RW. I shoot in RAW so that means about 750 shots per DVD+RW and about 41,000 (about 3 years shooting for me) on the 250GB drive. The reason for using +RW is that I can delete if I wish. Once the +RW is full it is copied to a +R for "permanent archiving". At about $.30 each this is a cheap and relaible way to archive.

I organize the shots by the sequential number from the camera i.e. DSC_xxxx in my case, although I just use the number (with an individual title) after editing. Each shoot is put into a folder with a sequential range and a brief title or date i.e. "2300-2400 Sedona Shoot 3-05". This gives me a double reference as to what and when.

After editing, the files are titled and put into an edited folder, and on a separate backup DVD, with the same title as the original. The edited folder is updated with the sequence number range each time as well.

I always back up after every editing session. It sounds like a lot, but once you get used to it it goes very quickly. The important things are: keep the camera sequence range as the beginning of the folder title, and back-up unedited and edited files on a DVD.

[eastbluffs]

Here's what would be sweet ....

Software that does it all automatically. You just set up your naming scheme, plug in your DVD and Photo Card, and walk away.

It would create your archive directory (named as you like), create complementing 2x2 low res thumbnail directory for quick searches, print a proof sheet at your specified size (if requested), add to your existing DVD-RW if there's room, or prompt for a new one if needed, Tell you what to label it, and perhaps even create a "Directory Thumbnail Collection" that would be a thumbnail of every 50th photo, just to get a feel for what's in there.

It could also create your "Picks" directory (named so its easily matched to the Originals directory), so you have a consistant place to keep the chosen ones.

[suemccartin]

I've got mine backed up on two different hard drives in the desktop and every once in awhile I do a backup of at least the directories that I know have had shots added to them to DVD. Once dual layer dvd's get reasonable I'll switch to those, right now the single layer are still cheaper and hold enough that it's not a huge job to backup 18 gig of pictures to dvd rom. There are services that let you upload and of course you can just get a ide drive put it in a cabinet and backup to that occasionally then disconnect it and put it away but I think the DVD's are probably the safest as long as they're put away properly and not subjected to too much abuse. I've got them backed up multiple times because I'm paranoid that way.

[StanleyL]

I have a network RAID 5 (redundant hard disk array, able to withstand one of the 4 going down).

All photos are taken with RAW + small JPEG. The small JPEG is just for quick viewing of the original. Windows Explorer (and other tools) list JPEG thumbnails of smaller files very fast.

All originals are copied into their own directory who's name starts with the first file name of that session + date of photos + 1 liner description of event.

Example: 4032_2005-04-30 Disneyland with Mom and Kids

These are within a separate directory for each camera.

Use RSE to do edits and ratings "1, 2, 3, or delete". I only delete originals that are truely junk. All others are kept. Category 1 are the ones I want to use. I "convert" these into 16bit Tiff and/or Jpegs, depending upon how critical the session is. I usually create a directory with approximately 2 mb jpeg files, another with 150K files (for faster viewing or proof prints of final version). Files below 150K are pretty much unusable for anything except thumbnails and are handy for printing proof sheets (XP Windows Explorer) and for sending in EMAILs.

When I make a CD of a session for someone, I usually include both JPEG directories and label the smaller one "EMAIL Sized".

Once a month or so I spend time making DVD's of last month's stuff. But, I make 2 copies of every DVD and give one to my mother. She's good at keeping stuff, and if I ever had a fire or theft, well, she lives in another State.

I also print "proof sheets" using Windows XP of all the category 1 photos. This is done by highlighting all the photos, right clicking, print, and selecting "proof sheet - 35 per page". I write the number of the first photo, put them into plastic sleves, and into a master notebook. They are kept chronological. The DVDs are kept in a firesafe. Of course, I print a few out to include in the shipment to moms - full sized just for her enjoyment. Hope to never use those.

If I were less lazy, I would do the DVDs right away, but since it is so unlikely that my hard disk will crash (and will hopefully never be stolen), but who knows. However redundant, every hard drive can fail.

Also note: I use "verify" AND always load at least 1 file from any DVD. A directory can look in-tact, but the actual file corrupted if there was an interruption during the burn process.

Since I only print the "keepers - category 1" on the proof sheets, they don't get too bulky.

This is just how I do it. I didn't plan it that way and I'm pretty sure it will be improved.

Frankly; I don't trust DVDs or CDs after being burned so often, pardon the pun. I don't know what I'll do when the array fills up - probably take it to work and make a tape backup. Placing all "keepers" into a separate directory so I can eventually delete the originals and depend upon DVD copy will someday be necessary. Since I always do "verify" and make 2 copies I should theoretically be OK.

Nice thread. Hope we see more contributions.

[jamison55]

250GB on my desktop, 80GB USB Drives (when I fill one up, I buy another. Works out to be about $5 per wedding), DVD-R's offsite. I shoot jpeg, I can't imagine the nightmare that RAW would cause...

On the proof sheets, Photoshop CS does it pretty easily. (File->Automate->Contact Sheet II)

[D70FAN]

250GB on my desktop, 80GB USB Drives (when I fill one up, I buy another. Works out to be about $5 per wedding), DVD-R's offsite. I shoot jpeg, I can't imagine the nightmare that RAW would cause...

On the proof sheets, Photoshop CS does it pretty easily. (File->Automate->Contact Sheet II)

Jamie... time to bite the bullet and go RAW. Once you get the work flow down (doesn't take as long as I thought) you will wonder how you ever got a decent print using JPEG.

As I said before I use 250GB drives connected with an IDE to USB2.0HS converter ($14.99). Bulk shots are backed-up on DVD+RW ,as a numbered and dated folder, as soon as they are downloaded to the PC.

I haven't filled the first 250GB drive yet (~41,500 NEF file capacity) as I have just rolled-over the D70 (10K images). Cost ~ $130 per drive. You only need one or two IDE-USB converters.

Fill a drive, label it with the camera counter and date range and file it on the book shelf.

[jamison55]

Jamie... time to bite the bullet and go RAW. Once you get the work flow down (doesn't take as long as I thought) you will wonder how you ever got a decent print using JPEG.

...One of the things I plan to experiment with when the business slows down this winter...

[Rhys]

As far as storage goes, try the following discussion on the FM board...

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/267303/0#2228000

[jcw122]

RAID arrays? man thats expensive stuff.

DVD-RWs? You'd still need to get a drive to do the writing if you don't have one.


Being good w/ computer hardware, I'd vote the 250gb or larger HDD, plus the DVD-RW, DVD-R, copying stuff, that would be pretty useful.

I myself might get a MASSIVE HDD, depending on my price range, use part as OS/file backup, and pictures, cause I mess w/ my system alot.

[cwphoto]

Work stuff: All RAW images exist on desktop, laptop, and DVD+R or CD-R. Processed images (eg; TIFF/JPEG conversions for clients, slicdeshows etc) exist on desktop and laptop.

DVD-RW used for transport of images (TIFF/JPEG) to and from the pro-lab for output to photographic paper.

Personal stuff: All RAW/JPEG images exist on desktop. Archived regularly to CD-R.

[eastbluffs]

RAID arrays? man thats expensive stuff.
Paid $950 for mine. It attaches to the network with a gigabit connection.

Don't notice much difference between using that or the local drive, although its probably a bit slower.

However; all files are available from all 3 computers and I don't worry too much about failures. My main laptop took a dive last night (literally, right off the coffee table). Dell is dragging their feet to come fix it but no big deal.

On the down side, its too much to back up so will have to decide on stuff to delete some time. The alternative was a 250GB USB attached HDD from Provantage for $215, but I wanted the protection against failure. Anyway, its a business expense.

[Rhys]

RAID arrays? man thats expensive stuff.

Less expensive than losing your work.

[eastbluffs]

Less expensive than losing your work.Haven't used it yet, but as a perk it has (optionally) a wireless attachment to a (separately purchased) multi-media system so all MP3 and DVD Ripped movies can be played via remote control. Once my finances recover that is. Also; it has a built in FTP server for retrieval of files from anywhere on the net, (if you set it up and trust their security precautions against hacking). Its a definate step up from a simple USB attached hard disk.

Oh, it is also expandable by adding USB drives to it, should you run out some day - and built in backup software. Its intended for professional network use.

Mainly; its just nice to have 700GB and just not worry about space or failures.

[suemccartin]

Just an FYI, you can get a Buslink SATA pci controller that will handle two internal SATA or two external SATA--has ports for both but you can only use one set at a time (don't think you can mix, not sure)--$30.00 ebay. 200 gig SATA maxtor drives on ebay $99.00 each, 2 SATA (internal and external) cabinets with their own power supplies and cables, $22.00 each and the Buslink comes with basic RAID software so in essence you could conceivably setup an external RAID SATA setup for about $300.00 bucks and then every year or two just ghost the drives to something bigger so you're not putting all your eggs in one basket and risking a drive failure. I'd still occassionally back the whole mess up to DVD's-- hopefully the dual layers will get reasonable soon. I've also heard of a "blue laser" dvd coming out that's supposed to fit something like 20 gig on a disk. If you don't know what SATA is, it's a helluva lot faster than old IDE hands down and this is the new standard for hard drives on 64bit hardware so you don't have to worry that the technology will be obsolete next year.

[erichlund]

Here's a thought. You don't have to save everything. :rolleyes:

If it's a lousy photo, just admit it and send it to the recycle bin (Remember when that used to be called the bit bucket :) )

Not every snap is salvageable. I'm not sure what the average is, but I imagine that will reduce your storage by a minimum of 50%. Probably reduce mine by around 90%. :o

Cheers,
Eric

[D70FAN]

Here's a thought. You don't have to save everything. :rolleyes:

If it's a lousy photo, just admit it and send it to the recycle bin (Remember when that used to be called the bit bucket :) )

Not every snap is salvageable. I'm not sure what the average is, but I imagine that will reduce your storage by a minimum of 50%. Probably reduce mine by around 90%. :o

Cheers,
Eric

Some of us might be able to sell those 250GB drives and put everything on a CD. I shoot in RAW so maybe 2 CD's. ;)

[nwpoland]

No mac users here? Amazing!

I use iPhoto (apple photo management--and then some--application) for storing and indexing all of our digital pics. It does everything you'd ever want in my opinion. Every now and then I'll backup the last few months or so onto DVD and then I'm free to wipe them off the drive. Just pop the DVD back in and it acts as though they're on the HD again (obviously if you make changes you'd have to resave them--but I generally don't mess with the originals).

For anyone interested in the mac vs. pc fight...I'm just not up to it. Just sharing my experience and not intending on getting into that ridiculous debate on this forum. :-)

One thing is always true no matter the platform...you never have enough disk space!!

[Glenn Kennedy]

George Riehm's signature says it all:

Once you go dSLR you'll never go back...
...Once you go RAW you'll never go back...
.... But you need a bigger memory card!!!...


And a bigger HDD too. I use 2 HDDs on my PC (regular back up from one to the other) and a pile of DVDs waiting to be used. However... ther never seems to be time. You'd think I'd learn. My HDD fried in work late last year and I lost about 3 weeks worth of work. There (but not at home) I back everything onto an external HDD every night. I haven't been caught out like that at home Yet.

Dumb question. Are the benefits from switching to RAW obvious in terms of print quality when printing to max. A4 size? I have not seen any real problems here at all (Nikon D70) so far - or are you referring to greater processing power with RAW?

[eastbluffs]

My HDD fried in work late last year and I lost about 3 weeks worth of work. There (but not at home) I back everything onto an external HDD every night. I haven't been caught out like that at home Yet.

I'm an IT manager (slash network manager slash programmer slash pc flunk - but still can't remember the symbol for "slash" haha) at work. We have 5 servers all with either RAID 5 or RAID 1 (Mirrored drives). I still have a "Standby Server" that gets refreshed every 30 minutes, incremental database backups to 3 destinations every 30 minutes, full database and program backups every 6 hours to 4 destinations, Full tape backups every week with Incremental tape backups every night. Workstations all have "Ghost Images" with ready hard disks pre-made for the payroll manager's, with separate daily backup for him (plus he has a mirrored drive).

The long-and-short of it, I've been burned many times and have learned. Hard disks (even RAID arrays) fail. Also; viruses and corruptions do occur. Its just a matter of when.

So my big "RAID 5 Array, yahoo!" at home still doesn't make me feel that secure. Dual DVD backups are the goal. I don't want my wedding pictures, kids photos, etc to get lost. And, I understand that pro photographers are expected to keep copies, and even make an income from old copies sometimes.

Although the SATA (Serial ATA) drives are a lot faster, I'd opt for RAID 5 instead. But even still, George's schedule for daily backups seems like a wise move for anyone.

Oh, and I'd throw out my bad photos if I were only good enough to recognize them.

[erichlund]

No mac users here? Amazing!

I use iPhoto (apple photo management--and then some--application) for storing and indexing all of our digital pics. It does everything you'd ever want in my opinion. Every now and then I'll backup the last few months or so onto DVD and then I'm free to wipe them off the drive. Just pop the DVD back in and it acts as though they're on the HD again (obviously if you make changes you'd have to resave them--but I generally don't mess with the originals).

For anyone interested in the mac vs. pc fight...I'm just not up to it. Just sharing my experience and not intending on getting into that ridiculous debate on this forum. :-)

One thing is always true no matter the platform...you never have enough disk space!!

You're right, it's not about PC vs. MAC. Being on a MAC doesn't suddenly give you more space, any more than being on a PC does. Both platforms have perfectly good file management options.

I have a network drive, a fairly new Western Digital product, that I do automatic backups to. I do wish is was gigabit capable, as the network connection becomes the bottleneck. When there's enough, I write them out to a DVD-R. Of course, it's not growing much now, as I'm between cameras. And computers, for that matter. We have the wife's computer and camera, but until this week, most of my waking hours have been filling out insurance claim paperwork. Finally sent the paperwork off today. Darn burglars.

Cheers,
Eric

[aparmley]

So; I'm wondering how you do it?

Under the sheets with the lights off, shes very shy! LOL No J/K. Right now I have a 120 GB HDD I slapped in an external enclosure. This what I save all my CFs to. I then back this up to my desktop HDD (250GB) using SyncBack SE - free D/L. Each month I just burn backups of my Catalogs in PSE3.


Make a DVD of each session?

idealy, yes! But who flosses and brushes every tooth after every meal?


OK OK, I bought a Buffalo Tera Station (730 GB of network attached disk space, using redundant disk RAID 5 technology).

Wow - Theres some jack-a-roonies. I'd just pick up two 250GB HDDs, what are the chances that the second will fail before you replace the first one that failed? Ok, wel, if you want to say worse senario an hour after the first one dies. in that case buy three and only use two until one fails then you are back up with 2 current copies in a matter of minutes.


I'm thinking numbered DVDs with proof sheets filed separately. Still; don't know a good quick proof-sheet print program.
When D/L your photos into either PSE3s catalog or CS2's don't you have the option at that point to both burn a copy of these photos and then select them all and select print multiple photos from the file menu and then print those to 8x10s?? I don't know just thinking out loud.

Very interesting topic! Thanks for starting it.

If money were no issue, I'd try all the solutions out there, the terastation, linksys' NAS, Mirra personal server - this sounds really cool. But, I need to save for lens, and one I start generating revenue, if I ever, or once my photography exependtures dwindle, if ever, then maybe I will pursue some of these.

[aparmley]

No mac users here? Amazing!

I use iPhoto (apple photo management--and then some--application) for storing and indexing all of our digital pics. It does everything you'd ever want in my opinion. Every now and then I'll backup the last few months or so onto DVD and then I'm free to wipe them off the drive. Just pop the DVD back in and it acts as though they're on the HD again (obviously if you make changes you'd have to resave them--but I generally don't mess with the originals).

For anyone interested in the mac vs. pc fight...I'm just not up to it. Just sharing my experience and not intending on getting into that ridiculous debate on this forum. :-)

One thing is always true no matter the platform...you never have enough disk space!!


I soooo want a G5 power mac with a 23inch flat screen, but I suppose I'd settle for a power book! =) I think its time for me to try a new flavor. Windoze is fun and all, microsloth is decent, but I want to try Mac real bad. I want one before they switch to intel chips.

[D70FAN]

I want one before they switch to intel chips.

Maybe you don't quite understand that the thing that makes the MAC unique is the OS.

Intel Microprocessors will only make it better. The Power PC (microprocessor) is at the end of it's capabilities, especially, low power versions for laptops. Hence no G5 version of the Powerbook.

Why not just buy a Mini and call it a day. For $499 you could see if you like the OS, and use one of the last Power PC microprocessors as well. After many years of PC use (since the first ones appeared in 1982 powered by an 80286) I too am curious. ;)

[Glenn Kennedy]

The long-and-short of it, I've been burned many times and have learned. Hard disks (even RAID arrays) fail. Also; viruses and corruptions do occur. Its just a matter of when.

Oh, and I'd throw out my bad photos if I were only good enough to recognize them.


To the first paragraph - it's being so cheerful that keeps you going. To the second - me too. CS2 is good, but one day, they'll come up with a programme to make 'em all presentable looking.

[nwpoland]

Maybe you don't quite understand that the thing that makes the MAC unique is the OS.

Intel Microprocessors will only make it better. The Power PC (microprocessor) is at the end of it's capabilities, especially, low power versions for laptops. Hence no G5 version of the Powerbook.

Why not just buy a Mini and call it a day. For $499 you could see if you like the OS, and use one of the last Power PC microprocessors as well. After many years of PC use (since the first ones appeared in 1982 powered by an 80286) I too am curious. ;)

Better yet, Apple US has announced that they will be doing a "test drive" campaign with the mini. So, supposedly through the Apple store you will be able to test drive one for up to 30 days. Don't like it, return it for a full refund (including NO restocking fee). Pretty awesome! It's definitely worth thinking about as you could easily add external drives to pump up your storage space.

Obviously I'm a mac fan and would support your transition :) but you're shooting pretty high for the G5 Powermac with 23" Cinema display. That's big bucks (and maybe you have that). I work on a 20" G5 iMac and absolutely love it. It's gorgeous and very powerful.

I also support George's claim about the Intel processors. That is going to really jumpstart Apple again in the eyes of many...and will definitely lead to some incredible advances in chip speed, heat management (a current problem with the G5 chip), and overall performance.

That said, when I want something, it's hard to wait for it! :D

[Nick]

Informative thread, gave me some ideas in regards to other options that I may look into! Meanwhile, this is how I do it. I have no optical drives aside from a CDRW and well, how much can I really fit onto a 700MB CD?

I've been shooting RAW for about three months - I love it but goodness, that 2GB CF card fills up fast and the data keeps piling up. So, to remedy that for a good while ( and also to convince myself that I have obsessive compulsive )

Master Drive: ( OS and Programs ) - Seagate Cheetah Ultra320 73GB

Primary - Documents/Music - Seagate Barracuda 160GB
Backup for above - " " " - IBM Deskstar 120GB

Photos Primary - Seagate Barracuda 400GB
Photos ( mirror of above ) - Seagate Barracuda 400GB

My computer is so noisy :eek: I promised myself I wouldn't spend any money on it for anymore; in other words, nothing else until the end of this year. I'm in college, too. Nuts! I feel as though this is enough back-up for now - although I just don't have that secure feeling as I do with my negatives and slides; locked away in a fire-proof safe that in plain white lettering states " PHOTOGRAPHS ONLY " ( have a look ) after which you'll find the code for the lock nicely stenciled beneath. In case, you know.

[Coltess]

I just read about the Mirra series of network backup devices (or whatever they are called). With the box plugged into the network, it will automatically backup every selected file upon every save (up to a max of 8 different version) from every computer with the client software installed.

http://www.mirra.com/

PC Magazine gave it a 3½/5 (Review: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1848371,00.asp)
Simple and effective as long as you don't need more than 400GB.

[qdebruin]

Hi,

There comes a time when you may want to consider storing off-site - hard drives and external HDs, CDs and DVDs are great but still vulnerable.

There is a company I use who allow you to store Photos and video online for free in a secure site. Your content is backed up daily and stored in a vault in the Rockies with other Fortune 500 Company's docs. The site is owned by a fortune 500 co so is not going anywhere. They also offer a iron clad lifetime guarantee for all content they store. Worth checking out go to www.qvteam.myphotomax.com for a free account. Hope that helps
Cheers
Quinton