KM 5D: will it be as good as it sounds?

[gstafleu]

The just announced 5D sounds really good: AS + lenses with an excellent "walk-around" range. An image stabilized 18-200mm sounds really tempting. Of course we'll have to wait and see if the camera lives up to its advertising, but if so it would be a serious competitor for the other DSLRs in its price range.

[TheObiJuan]

I will be keeping both eyes FIXED on this camera. I am eagerly waiting reviews and tests. If it is a winner, and is competitively priced, I may sell a lens and grab it. If the AF is good, then a 3-400mm fast lens on this body would be killer, and cheap. ;)

It will beat getting a canon 300f/2.8L IS, or 400f/2.8L IS, these both are very $$$$ :eek:

Luckily my bag can carry two bodies. Sigma's & Tamron's lenses are available in KM mount so my options are pretty open.

[D70FAN]

I will be keeping both eyes FIXED on this camera. I am eagerly waiting reviews and tests. If it is a winner, and is competitively priced, I may sell a lens and grab it. If the AF is good, then a 3-400mm fast lens on this body would be killer, and cheap. ;)

It will beat getting a canon 300f/2.8L IS, or 400f/2.8L IS, these both are very $$$$ :eek:

Luckily my bag can carry two bodies. Sigma's & Tamron's lenses are available in KM mount so my options are pretty open.


We need to come up with a Nikon/Canon lens adapter ring. :D

[D70FAN]

The just announced 5D sounds really good: AS + lenses with an excellent "walk-around" range. An image stabilized 18-200mm sounds really tempting. Of course we'll have to wait and see if the camera lives up to its advertising, but if so it would be a serious competitor for the other DSLRs in its price range.

This is the camera that will drive in-camera IS in the marketplace. Might as well add ultra-sonic cleaning as well. ;)

[Rhys]

This is the camera that will drive in-camera IS in the marketplace. Might as well add ultra-sonic cleaning as well. ;)

Yup. If I hadn't already got my XT, this would be of great interest.

[TheObiJuan]

We need to come up with a Nikon/Canon lens adapter ring. :D

That would be awesome. I wish it were feasible. :(

I hope IQ will be as good as the 7D. High ISO is not so different from the 20D. It's not as clean, but plenty useable.

[AllanMarcus]

It will beat getting a canon 300f/2.8L IS, or 400f/2.8L IS, these both are very $$$$ :eek:


I've been waiting for this camera too, but I don't think there are lens comparable to the L series for the KM, even without the IS. Are there?

$900 with the lens. $800 without. $700 street for body only. That's my guess.
Here's my proposed set up:

KM D5: $700
Sigma EF 500 DG ST FLASH: $150
Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC: $290
Konica 50mm f/1.7: $80
70-300mm from someone, Sigma or Konica: $140-$150
Total: $1370

For Canon Rebel XT:
Body: $800, Flash: $150, 28-135mm IS: $400, 50mm: $80, 75-300mm IS: $400. Total: $1830

KM D5: IS on all lens. Better ergonomics. Only 6MP. No status LCD.
Rebel XT: 8MP, better feature set, Lousy ergonomics.

Worth $500 (or more) more for the Rebel? Probably not for me. Then again, a Mac is worth more to me, so I have been known to pay a small premium for something that works better for me.

What are your thoughts on the set up above?

-Allan

[Rex914]

KM has also spilled the beans on its next DSLR, the 9D (not kidding). It will be aimed more at pro/serious amateurs.

(Source: Here (http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/dslr/2005/07/15/1939.html))

p.s. That article also shows the silver version of the 5D, following in the footsteps of Canon and Nikon.

[AllanMarcus]

KM has also spilled the beans on its next DSLR, the 9D (not kidding). It will be aimed more at pro/serious amateurs.


Unless you can read that stuff, I think they are showing the 5D and the 7D.

[Rhys]

Unless you can read that stuff, I think they are showing the 5D and the 7D.


http://www.babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr

The site translates the text as:
Konica Minolta and "α -Sweet DIGITAL" and so on new product concert
- "α -9" as for suitable superior type "while researching"

The Konica Minolta holding concert inside capital late digital single-lens reflex camera "α of August sale -Sweet concerning DIGITAL" and so on. Feature and the like of the new product was explained.


* "It is not mere entry, the product which is chosen positively"

From the left α -Sweet DIGITAL silver, black
α -Sweet as for DIGITAL, "α -7 of 2004 November sale 600 ten thousand pixel machines which hit to the subordinate type of DIGITAL". CCD and the AF sensor α -7 being almost common with DIGITAL, concerning the picture making have made almost equal. In addition, α -7 it was the largest feature of DIGITAL, "CCD shift system hand blurring revision mechanism (Aniti-Shake: Anti shake)"concerning you say that it is taken over, loads equal unit. α -7 approximately 22% than DIGITAL it miniaturized body size.

As for concept "" ideal size, the commodity which can obtain the high picture quality picture which compatibility and the failure does not have strong design with feeling good ease of use and upper quality "simply". Rather than calling the completely beginner, "with the family event the user where the step-up inclination which is challenged even in the real work making is strong" is supposed in the target user. That picture quality of single-lens reflex, to be connected with to the person who has understood the width of reliability and the photographing territory, concrete "mainly silver salt α
You say that -Sweet it is related to the buying changing user from class ". As for Osamu village island Noboru of development department 1st design group charge section chief "it was not the mere entry machine, the product which is chosen positively" it emphasized.







α -7 DIGITAL (the left) with comparison

α -7 from DIGITAL as for the main point which is inferior on the specifications, finder magnification ratio from 0.9 times reached 0.83 times. Being because from the pentaprism it modifies in the roof mirror, but "brightness α -7 has made the level which almost is equal to DIGITAL". In addition, the liquid crystal monitor the rear the same size 2.5 types and α -7 as DIGITAL, from 20.7 ten thousand pixels it was simplified in 11.5 ten thousand pixels.

However, the number, 0.83 times that finder magnification ratio when entry class of other companies you compare evenly, is large, α -7 DIGITAL and similarly excels in the being visible of brightness and focus adopting "スフェリカルアキƒ…ートマット". You say that α -7 similar to DIGIATL, the being visible of the finder is designated as one of the 訴 seeking point. Furthermore, indication inside the finder changes somewhat, the hand blurring indicator moves to lower part from the right inside the finder. Also indication has become the compact.

There was also an additional function conversely, "the portrait", "sport" and "the scenery", "evening scene" and night scene/called the night scene portrait "the" "photographing scene selector" the one of that. Furthermore, P/A/S/M mode "picture finished function" (picture quality adjustment function) was added respectively. Being something which with the taste of the user sets contrast, chroma and sharp Ness at ±2 stage, you say that it can reflect the thought of the photographing person from the photographing scene selector.

Furthermore besides the fact that the white balance bracket joined, K (Kelvin) with the graph of CC filter conversion is linked to color temperature appointment simultaneously. We have assumed that it became the setting which is easy to be divided into the film camera user.

In addition, at the time of playback mode elimination at the folder unit became possible. In addition, improving the enlargement indication and automatic picture revolution indication etc. of the RAW picture. Furthermore, ON/OFF of lens focal length and the hand blurring revision is added to the information display with the rear liquid crystal monitor. In addition, during after view indicating it reached the point where indication change operation is accepted.



CCD shift system hand blurring revision mechanism "Anti-Shake" Arrangement of drive and the like was taken a second look and compact conversion was assured The Advanced Capability "picture it finishes",

In operation aspect, entry class dial arrangement to left and right. Right hand side, left hand side such as mode modification has become setting of white balance. It equips also the preview button. When as for the switch of power source and the hand blurring revision ON/OFF there is a similar position, it looks the finder with the sensor under the finder, you succeed also the mechanism where the liquid crystal monitor goes out.

As for miniaturization of body size, miniaturization of drive and the thing due to the optimization of arrangement you call. You say that the plural seconds look are done, e.g., it is categorized the contraction motor which has been arranged with respect to the rear left to the side with respect to the shutter unit left. In addition, 5 degrees focal planes the optical system which is bent forward was adopted, the height decrease of approximately 2m was actualized standard type (bending forward it is not) in comparison with optical system.

You use the air even in upper material feeling of body appearance, the company name and type name, adopting inking processing for the principal button. In addition, with the aluminum make, the dial ring left and right deeply, after the drawing, alumite processing is done. Furthermore those which spin it etched processed the stainless steel material are used to the name plate of dial top.



The DT lens of sale schedule the real thing lined up. As for photograph 11-18mm F4.5-5.6 (D) α -Sweet DIGITAL and 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 (D). DT "digital technology" It displays also the infrequent G lens new product. However mock-up

* As for X1 in user of design inclination
プレゼン was done concerning compact digital camera "DiMAGE X1". The Shintani large person of the development 2 group "in picture quality, function, design and size, explaining the concept of X1 digital camera of superlative". The compact of the past DiMAGE series while being conscious, you say that you put effort into also design characteristic.

As for the target user, the person who has value even in design not only function. When you analyze, beautiful interest to be strong interest to cultural ones such as movie music is strong, "intellectual creative self search group" and, success wish is strong, it becomes "developmental way rise oriented group," widely from 20 generations is distributed former to the nodule generation, latter it says that 30 - 40 generations are the center. When as for Shintani "going to the just a little meal as a concrete example, unless you inspect in the gourmet book, the person where the air is not completed. The person who has had the furniture with the designer brand "and so on it explained.

Because of that we to elaborate to material feeling, for example after with the blast silver, squeezing the aluminum material, the buff it grinds, does alumite processing. As for the black chrome and the wine red lead you say that furthermore it has increased the glossy impression by the fact that it passes the processing which differs from the silver.



DiMAGE X1. As for color wine lead-lead Rear Blast silver (on) with black chrome

Main feature other than designing 1/1.8 type 800 ten thousand pixels CCD, the hand blurring revision mechanism, the optical 3 time GT lens and the high bright functional equipped 2.5 type liquid crystal monitor of the new design with lens unit swing system. Concerning CCD among those, as X series whose 1/2.5 types are many adopting 1/1.8 types for the first time. Picture quality as a basis MTF of frequency was seriously considered low with print, you say that the picture quality whose ヌケ is good with clearing was pursued.

Lens unit swing system being something which aims toward the thin body with the hand blurring revision built-in, being parallel to the base, in case of the crookedness optics whose it is many to arrange CCD, because with former CCD shift system it is necessary to expand the area around CCD, cannot maintain scantness. In addition, presently with revision inside the lens of main current it is easy to pull up the one becoming dim and the like. Because of that, you say that the method of moving unit the whole lens was taken. The lowest shutter speed where the hand blurring does not occur with X1 is designated as "1 second of 6 parts".


* As for superior type "while researching such as essential technology"

The Ishizuka Hiroshi one director of camera business department manager
The Ishizuka Hiroshi one director of camera business department manager, announced that "from about one year ago you have a match with single-lens reflex and the compact machine which squeezes concept. The latest product keeps deciding future directivity just. It is the core type 2005 ", that you talked expectation.

In addition, "() entry to digital single-lens reflex was late, but α -7 with DIGITAL CCD shift system could be actualized. When the camera making it is important to actualize dream, you re-recognized. In addition, with camera grand prix 2005, other than CCD shift system, entire operativity such as finder and 2.5 type liquid crystal monitors was appraised. This is very delightful as makes the camera. It is commonplace, but you use and you feel "that pursuit of the camera where the selfishness is good is important, that you commented.

Furthermore as for the same company, concerning the share in the digital single-lens reflex market it made "secret".

In addition, if as for Ishizuka the silver salt camera the midst when essential technology and the like has been trained α concerning the most significant type which equals to -9. Class with respect to method which designates the photograph as hobby, α -7 those whose DIGITAL is next necessary are researched ", that comment. "Consecutive and we would like to keep developing from the superior user to Sweet class planning", "as for being able to say clearly there are no times when the cheapest one is made", and so on you said.



* URL
The Konica Minolta
Http: //konicaminolta.jp/
News release
Http: //konicaminolta.jp/about/release/kmhd/2005/0715_04_01.html
Product information
Http: //konicaminolta.jp/products/consumer/digital_camera/a_sweet_digital/

* Related article
Konica Minolta, CCD shift hand blurring revision on-board enrollment machine "α -Sweet DIGITAL" (2005/07/15)
Konica Minolta, thin-shaped コンパクトデジカメ"DiMAGE X1" of 800 ten thousand pixels (2005/07/15)


(This journal: Time this happiness Osamu)
2005/07/15 20:22

[Rex914]

Unless you can read that stuff, I think they are showing the 5D and the 7D.

No no, it's a pretty well stated fact that KM announced that they were working on the 9D. It's out of character for KM, but look around every major site, and you'll find the same.

[ReF]

This is the camera that will drive in-camera IS in the marketplace. Might as well add ultra-sonic cleaning as well. ;)

i hope canon comes out with something similar soon, though they probably want to keep making $$$ on their large line of IS lenses. i'd much rather pay $800 for a sigma 70-200 f2.8 and use the in-camera stabilizer than pay $1600 :eek: for the canon 70-200 f2.8 IS. now i've gotta decide whether to settle for the canon 100-400 IS/sigma 80-400 OS now, or wait(for a long time) for the release of the next canon body and do without a tele lens til then to see if they put a stabilized sensor on it :(

[AllanMarcus]

I doubt that canon will add IS to the body. I think this is a KM thing. Canon needs to come out with a new design for the REbel XT that doesn't hurt to hold :-)

-Allan

[TheObiJuan]

I doubt that canon will add IS to the body. I think this is a KM thing. Canon needs to come out with a new design for the REbel XT that doesn't hurt to hold :-)

-Allan

if you don't like it, get a grip.
The camera was designed for smaller handed people.

[Rex914]

now i've gotta decide whether to settle for the canon 100-400 IS/sigma 80-400 OS now

Or you could play the teleconverter game and buy a 300mm f/4 IS and add on a 1.4x converter if you don't have one already. Assuming you have something that covers the 70-200 range, this will add on 300-400ish range too.

[AllanMarcus]

TheObiJuan,

Thanks for the advice. I actually have pretty small hands, and when I hold the XT, I still feel that my fingers are scrunched up. I held a Nikon D50 at the same time and the Pentax *ist DS, and man, what a difference. The Pentax was the best.

As for the additional grip for the Xt, I see how that would help for portrait shots, but I don't see how that would help for landscapre shots. Also, that would defeat the smaller size of the XT. My point is that the Pentax is roughly the same size and weight as the XT, but is much easier to hold (for me). From what I can tell of the KM D5, it looks like it will also be easier to hold. Only time will tell.

Ergonomics is one of the biggest complaints about the XT. I cannot imaging that Canon is ignoring that. Hopefully they will come up with a better grip in their next consumer dSLR.

[ReF]

Assuming you have something that covers the 70-200 range,

that's exactly my problem. my longest focal length is 135mm, and after i sell the 28-135 IS(PM me if interested), i'll have just the 75mm from the end of the tamron. i want the canon 70-200 f2.8 IS with a 1.4x TC, but like most people, i find even just the lens itself a little difficult to afford. it would also be a little heartbreaking if i actually purchased the 70-200 IS only to find a few months later that canon put a stabilized chip on their next camera. though i think that's very unlikely to happen anytime soon - they would kill their own IS lens sales.

[Rhys]

that's exactly my problem. my longest focal length is 135mm, and after i sell the 28-135 IS(PM me if interested), i'll have just the 75mm from the end of the tamron. i want the canon 70-200 f2.8 IS with a 1.4x TC, but like most people, i find even just the lens itself a little difficult to afford. it would also be a little heartbreaking if i actually purchased the 70-200 IS only to find a few months later that canon put a stabilized chip on their next camera. though i think that's very unlikely to happen anytime soon - they would kill their own IS lens sales.

I doubt they'd kill their IS sales. Many photographers still use EOS film cameras. Besides... if they were cunning enough to raise the price of the stabilised digital camera or maybe put it only on a professional camera then in the first instance, they could recoup their expense and then some as everybody with unstabilised lenses would want a stabilised body. In the second, everybody would want to upgrade from amateur to pro cameras - at pro prices. Personally also, I feel that the cost of manufacturing an IS lens reduces the profit margin quite a bit and also increases the number of failures and rejects. Selling solely unstabilised lenses and stabilised bodies makes economical sense for a manufacturer as failure is reduced from the IS modules on all the IS lenses to just a body and the manufacturing/quality control cost lowers. Then they could stop making IS lenses. Having said that, IS hasn't killed tripod sales yet...

[erichlund]

I doubt they'd kill their IS sales. Many photographers still use EOS film cameras. Besides... if they were cunning enough to raise the price of the stabilised digital camera or maybe put it only on a professional camera then in the first instance, they could recoup their expense and then some as everybody with unstabilised lenses would want a stabilised body. In the second, everybody would want to upgrade from amateur to pro cameras - at pro prices. Personally also, I feel that the cost of manufacturing an IS lens reduces the profit margin quite a bit and also increases the number of failures and rejects. Selling solely unstabilised lenses and stabilised bodies makes economical sense for a manufacturer as failure is reduced from the IS modules on all the IS lenses to just a body and the manufacturing/quality control cost lowers. Then they could stop making IS lenses. Having said that, IS hasn't killed tripod sales yet...

Wow, I can't imagine that it costs over $650 to put VR on a lens. The Nikkor 70-200VR is $1470 after rebate at Samy's, while the 80-200 is $820. I'd be really surprised if the per unit cost for parts and installation is over $100. Sure, they had to develop the capability, but that's sunk cost, distributed over the life of the product line. Still, I've got to think they are making a profit on the VR. Especially considering they can probably charge whatever they like, so why would they charge less than it costs? I'm pretty sure they have accountants that would explain that sort of stuff to them.

Cheers,
Eric

[erichlund]

And here's another reason. If the IS on the KM fails, you have a case of useless lenses until you get the camera back from service. If an IS lens fails, you have a perfectly good system for taking photos, but you need to rent a lens until you get your IS lens back, assuming you need that focal length.

Cheers,
Eric

[Rhys]

And here's another reason. If the IS on the KM fails, you have a case of useless lenses until you get the camera back from service. If an IS lens fails, you have a perfectly good system for taking photos, but you need to rent a lens until you get your IS lens back, assuming you need that focal length.

Cheers,
Eric

Backup camera and keep on using the unstabilised lens?

[erichlund]

Backup camera and keep on using the unstabilised lens?

Backup cameras are for pros and amateurs with deep pockets. My backup is my wife's Canon S60. A digital backup body (D50) would cost me $800. I can get a couple of primes for that. A film backup wouldn't be much use to me yet, because my main lens is a DX, so it's not full frame. The other lens is the 50mm f1.8, so that would be viable. Now, if I had a bunch of lenses, it might be worth it to get a backup body, but if I had a bunch of lenses, I probably couldn't afford a backup body. Viscious circle type of thing.

Cheers,
Eric

[AllanMarcus]

And here's another reason. If the IS on the KM fails, you have a case of useless lenses until you get the camera back from service. If an IS lens fails, you have a perfectly good system for taking photos, but you need to rent a lens until you get your IS lens back, assuming you need that focal length.

If the IS fails, just turn it off and keep shooting!

Your basic argument holds true for any camera; if the mechanics or electronics fail, then you have to get it repaired. I don't see how it's any worse for a camera with integrated IS.

-Allan

[D70FAN]

If the IS fails, just turn it off and keep shooting!

Your basic argument holds true for any camera; if the mechanics or electronics fail, then you have to get it repaired. I don't see how it's any worse for a camera with integrated IS.

-Allan

I agree. I think that IS is a great idea, but have found that it doesn't always do what you expect, as you expect, at least the VR version. My own experience is that used in a good lens the system works ok, and used in a cheap lens it stabilizes, but is still soft.

Hopefully the KM internal version will work better, but a good lens is still required with or without IS/OS/VR/AS, so real savings on lens cost is relative. Since we have heard very little from any 7D owners, and review sites don't seem to be very impressed it's hard to say whether this is really useful or not. We just assume that it is.

[AllanMarcus]

Since we have heard very little from any 7D owners, and review sites don't seem to be very impressed it's hard to say whether this is really useful or not. We just assume that it is.

The KM forum at dpreview.com is much more active than here. As expected, they are pretty happy with the 7D and looking forward to the 5D. They are also jealous of the new line of Canon cameras :-) They are hoping that KM comes out with a pro version of the Maxxum line. Given the deep discounts and rebates on the 7D (will be $840 after rebate after 9/1), they are hoping a 9D will be announced soon.

As for the reviews, here are some quotations. i think the 7D was very well received. I think the 5D will be just as well received:

dcresource:
All things considered, the Maxxum 7D gets my enthusiastic recommendation. It was a real joy to use, and I was satisfied with its photo quality after increasing the sharpness a notch

Steve's:
The 7D's image quality is very good.
I thoroughly enjoyed using the MAXXUM 7D. It's controls offer a nice blend of menu-driven functionality and the traditional direct control offered by dials and switches. The 7D gives you the impression that it is first a camera, and second a digital device. Its ergonomics were excellent, being comfortable to hold, easy to operate, and informative while held at eye level; the 7D has clearly benefitted from Minolta's experience with its MAXXUM film SLR's.
It’s pretty obvious that the engineers at Minolta are also photographers ...

dpreview:
Highly Recommended: Maxxum 7D, Nikon D50, Canon Rebel XT
Recommended: Olympus E-300, Pentax *ist DS