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eastcoastjoe
07-06-2005, 02:39 PM
I have been thinking about this for a while now and resisted the urge to post but with the recent thread started by the guy who was trading in his Frank (FZ) for a DSLR, I thought it was time.

I too had problems with the Frank's (FZ) noise; I worried a bit; got a bit upset for a few days and then I looked into the solutions for the problem.

I bought a copy of Neat Image and have barely looked back. I mean, I was annoyed for a few days after my purchase of N.I. thinking that perhaps my FZ wasn't such a good camera or value if it needs external software to make up for internal short comings. Then it dawned on me; and please forgive me as sometimes I am a little dense - my Frank (FZ) plus a copy of Neat Image delivers clearer, sharper and overall better images than I could afford to make otherwise and quite competitive with many cameras costing sigificantly more. I can make bigger, better and more affordable prints with my FZ and my photo printer than I ever hoped to or was able to in the film days.

Great; I expect that the Nikon will produce images with considerably less noise than the FZ; hey, I expect that a bag full of Nikor lenses that cover the range of the Leica lens on the FZ will produce better results as well. While I am at it, I wish I shot in Adobe RGB instead of just processed in ARGB; and I wouldn't mind a RAW or Superfine JPEG mode either; but when I add the cost of those improvements it simply adds up to pictures not taken and images not made. As of now, I couldn't afford to pursue this hobby AND resolve those issues. I would have taken many more pics over the years with my old Minolta SRT if it weren't for processing costs but for me, and I imagine for many, cost is a big factor in any hobby.

While I thought that the Frank (FZ) was a bit expensive, I looked at the alternatives and realized that I could get an FZ and probably a super cool DSLR in a few years for less than the cost of one DSLR now. That means in the future I will have to carefully plan to buy and carry lenses but until that becomes affordable, my FZ will do more than I need it to do. But think about it; these are electronic and not mechanical devices so they will change and improve much more quickly. Think of the $3000 8086 PC vs. a new Dell. My old Mac plus cost more that my (now aging) G4. Some people need to be early adopters of the latest technology; but many of us can't jump on board until the subsequent generations of technology come down in price.

FWIW I have used Neat Image to reduce noise in pics shot at ISO 400 with results clear enough to make a cropped 8x10 with no visible noise or artifacts. Are they perfect? No. Are they as good or better than I could have gotten from my old SRT? Yes. When I use ISO 100 or 80 the results are simply remarkable; as you can see, I am remarking right now.

Just the act of using ANY digital camera allows me do do things I couldn't dream of before. I love Photoshop and I have so much more control over the final image than I would have using film. That I can afford to do this work at all, I consider a technological miracle that, for me, more than offsets the compromises presented by any digital camera.

Digital camers are at a stage when all have at least one signicant compromise. Until the now-expensive sensors are cheaper or until better sensors come along there will be trade offs; in the case of the Frank (FZ), Pana went low rent on plenty of features to get the nifty lens on it for the price they're charging. Don't forget until recently Nikon was still selling the 4MP D2H; it can still be found online for some multiple of the FZ's price. Sure the Canon Digital Rebel is a great deal but the kit lens on the Rebel is, to put it politely, weak.

The real question then becomes, which digital camera flaw doesn't affect me or am I willing to live with? Because, as Roseanne Rosanna Danna used to say, "it's always someting." For many, the advanced point and shoot camera is the ticket to high quality photographs and continuing their photo hobby in the digital age.

herc182
07-06-2005, 03:19 PM
well put. the FZ20 for the price is an amazing camera given its features. and yes, you try and get a lens that has 432mm equivalent zoom with a fast f2.8 all the way through and you are loooking at a good £500-£1000.

i also whole heartedly recommend noise ninja. although i rarely use it now since i ensure all photos are correctly exposed and shoot at iso 80 or 100 (although not afraid to go higher if required.

jcon
07-06-2005, 05:07 PM
Well said Eastcoastjoe! I whole heartedly agree! I have a question for you about NI... I have the free version, Is the bought version any different? Would I be getting more options if I paid for it? And I have been wondering this for awhile, why do you refer to the FZ as "Frank"? Did I miss something? :D

Dingo
07-06-2005, 05:20 PM
And I have been wondering this for awhile, why do you refer to the FZ as "Frank"? Did I miss something? :D

FZ = Frank Zappa ( bless his soul R.I.P. ) , so FZ now = Frank :D

eastcoastjoe
07-06-2005, 05:47 PM
Well said Eastcoastjoe! I whole heartedly agree! I have a question for you about NI... I have the free version, Is the bought version any different? Would I be getting more options if I paid for it? And I have been wondering this for awhile, why do you refer to the FZ as "Frank"? Did I miss something? :D

The free version of N.I. only processes a part of the picture; I forget the dimensions but it is smaller than the 2560 x 1920 pixels that make a 5mp image. I believe everything else is the same. I bought the previous version a few months ago and the new version came out shortly afterward; I recieved a free upgrade. Good deal. I love this program.

Herc as well as others have had much success with Noise Ninja; it was very well reviewed by Michael Almond at www.michaelalmond.com and should make anyone as happy as N.I. makes me.

I was shocked at the number of people on dpreview who referred to their FZ series camera as a "Fluzi;" so in an earlier post I decided to start promoting my personal delusion that the FZ series was named for the late Frank Zappa and to start referring to my camera by the more dignified name "Frank." I mean this thing resolves great detail as it accurately and beautifully renders a moment in time; a marvel of engineering for the masses such as this deserves something better than "Fluzi."

Be happy; get a good noise reduction program; take lots of really cool pics.

Balrog
07-07-2005, 04:02 PM
Actually, the free version of NeatImage *will* process the entire 5MP image (i've used it on 2592*1944 Canon G5 shots, and the whole image did get cleaned, so..); the features you have to *pay* for are the batch processing capability (you can only process a max. of two shots at a time with the free version), the ability to output TIFF or BMPs; the Photoshop plugin version; etc...
Link to the feature comparison between the various editions:
http://www.neatimage.com/featuremap.html

shu246
07-07-2005, 05:28 PM
yep. i looked over the usual suspects (neat image, noise ninja, etc) and settled on neat image. worked well and seemed to be the easiest to understand how to work it. sent 'em the 30 bucks or whatever. mostly i shoot around iso 80 or 100, but it's there to clean up if i do have to push the film speed.

actually, the most use i have put neat image to so far is running through a set of iso 400 available (incandescent) light shots inside the house in the evening; pictures made just to wring out the noise image program.

i ordered the FZ20 sight-unseen after scruffing around on the boards (mostly this one and steve's). still amazes me what that FZ20 does in a single sealed package.

got up enough nerve a few days ago to mount an ancient vivitar 3300 flash i have (after learning about and checking trigger voltage). gave me about 2 more stops. nice to have that hot shoe.