digital slr for college

[volenick]

I'm going to RIT in the fall for photojournalism and I am required to have a digital slr by 3rd quarter. The school offers the Nikon D70s kit at $950 and the Nikon D50 kit at $725. I have looked up both of these cameras and compared there specs to others and I still dont know what to do. I looked at the Canon EOS 20D and really liked what I saw, but it seems that I'm getting a really good deal on these Nikons. So my questions are: are either of these Nikons a good pick and what other cameras are available with an educational discount.

[timmciglobal]

RIT Alumuns here too!

Great school, check out jack astors for great garlic pan bread! :)

As far as the D70 vs 20D thing... It's one of those "life long choices" if your going to be a photo journalist. You are either a canon or a nikon person because you can't afford to be both when you get into more expensive glass. (not to mention getting consistent results with two totally different imaging systems)

I'm a canon person so that's always my viewpoint on things but the D70 is a nice camera too (though the moire issue drives me insane, the spot metering though makes me swoon) I've heard the d70s has less of an issue then D70 with it though. Plus the lens is very nice that comes with the D70.

The 20D's plus over the D70 is the shooting speed and high ISO performance.

I'd suggest whichever you go with (especially if you go canon) get the cheapie 50 F 1.8 lens. Runs about 70$ for the canon version (Think 99 for nikon version) and is fantastic for the cost. Plus it's razor sharp.


I'd also consider the rebel XT with the BG E-3 battery grip. It doesn't shoot as fast as the 20D and the shutter is rated for half the life (50K v 100K, though rebels have had failures from 9K>85K so who knows) is a great camera and the grip really gives you support and vertical shutter release and controls.


Tim

[volenick]

Thanks for the tips...I'm still undecided but I have a good bit of time before I absolutely beed it. Just curious, were you a photography major?

[timmciglobal]

No, IT.

You from around rochester? What made you pick RIT?

Please tell me it wasn't those damn CNBC commercials :p

Tim

[aparmley]

I'm going to RIT in the fall for photojournalism and I am required to have a digital slr by 3rd quarter. The school offers the Nikon D70s kit at $950 and the Nikon D50 kit at $725. I have looked up both of these cameras and compared there specs to others and I still dont know what to do. I looked at the Canon EOS 20D and really liked what I saw, but it seems that I'm getting a really good deal on these Nikons. So my questions are: are either of these Nikons a good pick and what other cameras are available with an educational discount.

I am so jealous... I wish I knew I had a love for photography late in my highschool years, then maybe I could have done something similar. Now I have an IT degree and its impossible to get a good job without 5+ years of specific experience + degree... its tough... But theres nothing easy about a photojournalism job either though, but I think I'd find that more appealing than this data center.... hehe.. I'm sure if I spend my weekends working around the city on my time, following the events, snapping some pictures, sending them in to some of the area papers/magazines and did some reading it could lead to something, but then again, I don't know anything about the game so maybe thats all wrong... LOL IDK.. but good luck to you this fall and that sounds like a very rewarding and exciting journey you are about to begin!

As far as advice on the camera is concerned, I am not sure about educational discounts but those prices don't seem like an extraordinary deal, so I wouldn't give that too much weight in my decision. Like so many people here say, go to a local camera store, try them all out, the 20D and D70s, see which you like in your hand better, ask them to put a long tele on both and then see how they feel in your hand, as you will be doing a fair amount of shooting with some of the larger lenses it may make sense to evaluate their balance and heft with one on at the store. True there are differences in performance, positives and negatives on both sides, it really matters how you view the positives and negatives, what you want, what you think you will need. I though that a nice clean image at ISO1600 may be useful to me, I never knew how useful that is until now, I find myself taking full advantage of that ability very often [the 20D will have that as well as ISO 3200]. IMHO, the score is in favor of the 20D, but I am confident that the D70s would not let a photographer down at all. I am so wanting to pick one of those D70s up with the kit lens and have fun with it and see the results, I hate not having a solid recommendation and I hate not knowing which I would be happier with. I am extremely happy with my XT, but you always wonder, would I have been extremely happy with the D70 as well??? it plays with your mind... at least it does mine... So good luck to you, try 'em both out, see what you like, the negatives in each camera can be worked around and the postives are great!

[aparmley]

I'd also consider the rebel XT with the BG E-3 battery grip. It doesn't shoot as fast as the 20D ...

This is also not a bad option. I love my XT and can't wait to pick up the battery grip and slap that on there... But I have read a lot of people recommend that those extra 2 frames per second are very valuable in photojournalism, those key moments in meet in greets , five shots of the handshake give you more options that say 3 ... and also for those rare action moments that will never be recreated... Just one example of the where some of the differences may make a difference in photojour. circumstances... Just my thoughts.. Obijuan might be able to shed some light on this as he shot the XT briefly before upgrading to the 20D, shooting alot of fast paced action sports -
[that game where there are exploding paint rounds fired out of air rifles, sillyness...side note Obi- have you heard of the Paintball colluseum? Its very close to were I live, its supposed to be one of the largest indoor paint ball arenas in the US]-
But like I said he might be able to tell you better how big the differences are in shooting 5 fps vs. 3 fps...

[volenick]

No, IT.

You from around rochester? What made you pick RIT?

Please tell me it wasn't those damn CNBC commercials :p

Tim

No, I'm from a small town in northern WV; I'm very close to Pittsburgh, PA. I chose RIT because it was recommended to me by a friend of the family who is a photographer. I've had trouble deciding for sure that I want to go there to study photoJ; I was worried that I would get there and hate it and be stuck at a school where there really isnt much option to change majors. I've taken a few courses and talked to a few who do it for a living, so now I'm pretty confident and excited for it, I just hope it all pans out like I want it to haha

And aparmley, I think if you want to try for a photoJ job than you should, people make dramatic career changes all the time and it works out fine

[TheObiJuan]

This is also not a bad option. I love my XT and can't wait to pick up the battery grip and slap that on there... But I have read a lot of people recommend that those extra 2 frames per second are very valuable in photojournalism, those key moments in meet in greets , five shots of the handshake give you more options that say 3 ... and also for those rare action moments that will never be recreated... Just one example of the where some of the differences may make a difference in photojour. circumstances... Just my thoughts.. Obijuan might be able to shed some light on this as he shot the XT briefly before upgrading to the 20D, shooting alot of fast paced action sports -
[that game where there are exploding paint rounds fired out of air rifles, sillyness...side note Obi- have you heard of the Paintball colluseum? Its very close to were I live, its supposed to be one of the largest indoor paint ball arenas in the US]-
But like I said he might be able to tell you better how big the differences are in shooting 5 fps vs. 3 fps...


The xt ain't no 20D, that's for sure. But it is a 20D lite for very cheap. I got a great deal on my 20D so I went for it.

3fps vs 5fps is a big difference. When reviewing the action sequence there is a lot more capturing going on. The buffer is bigger, that really helps. When it comes to fast moving sports, there isn't time for single shot focusing. Compose, track, and shoot away. The 20D's AF is better in lower light, but the XT can hold it's own otherwise.
With a grip the XT is fantastic. I had the choice to keep my xt and get a grip, or upgrade to the 20D. Logically, I went for the 20D. :p
Aparlemy, I have not heard of Paintball colluseum, but I am certain that my friends have. They are really into paintball. :D


By the way, if you want the 20D then just get it. The slight difference in cost will be slight when you start spending money on gear and lenses. I have spent far much more money than I had ever expected. But I am very happy with all of my equipment and what I get out of it.

If you get the d70 and start blowing money on lenses, you will look back and perhaps regret getting it instead of the 20D.
Of coarse you may not need the 20D's capabilites, or even use it. I suppose it's for you to decide. :)
6 months ago I would not have thought I would be where I am now.
<looks around to see if the wife is near>
I have just started saving for my first Leica lens. :p

[timmciglobal]

No doubt on the 20D FPS wise but the buffer I've got to disagree on. The buffer depth of the 20d is actually shorter then the XT because of the FPS difference. Since the XT writes as it's taking new images you can actually top out over 100 jpegs at high/fine without hitting the buffer limit (on a sandisk ultra 2 card) where as the 20d since it's shooting faster for me atleast hits the limit around 57 images.

On another thread I've personally said the 3 v 5 is a big difference in PJ situations where the "perfect shot" means more then the "best shot" (ie: the pefect smiling handshake vs the smiling but hands not together)

Having said that though d70s shoots 3 FPS so...

Either way you'll be happy though they are both excelent machines.



Tim

[TheObiJuan]

No doubt on the 20D FPS wise but the buffer I've got to disagree on. The buffer depth of the 20d is actually shorter then the XT because of the FPS difference. Since the XT writes as it's taking new images you can actually top out over 100 jpegs at high/fine without hitting the buffer limit (on a sandisk ultra 2 card) where as the 20d since it's shooting faster for me atleast hits the limit around 57 images.

On another thread I've personally said the 3 v 5 is a big difference in PJ situations where the "perfect shot" means more then the "best shot" (ie: the pefect smiling handshake vs the smiling but hands not together)

Having said that though d70s shoots 3 FPS so...

Either way you'll be happy though they are both excelent machines.



Tim


I have two cards, a 1gb ultra II and a 80x lexar. I never run out of buffer space when shooting at 5fps. With the 350D I would....It would slow way down too.

[timmciglobal]

Oh one other thing to note, LENS.

Don't forget a good lens.

I know it may sound better to buy a "great" camera and a crummy lens but buying atleast a decent lens is a huge factor. The camera is very important (I hate people who claim "oh its just a body, well, is "film" just "a canister" no of course not) but you want a good lens to go along with it.

You might want to post on fredmiranda.com/forums or ask PJ's here what they use or "learned on" lens wise (as I've got no clue personally)

I've had a few copies and found the 28-135 IS lens a fantastic item. It's relativly cheap at 350>400$ and has IS and a relativly good range of 44>216 mm once you factor crop. The kit lens may be "junk" as some claim but it is a cheap wide angel lens. I find the quality to be relativly good compared to the alternatives. I also love the 50 F 1.8 lens, it's cheap and plastic (70$ or so) but it's got fantastic low light ability)

As far as "pro" glass 17-40L (600$) 70-200 F2.8 IS (1600) 24-70 F 2.8L (1100) are very common for the pros. As is a few good prime lenses too but ends up running up cost very quickly and they are quite bulky (especially the 70-200 F2.8)

People have said good things of tamaron 28-70 F2.8 though I've yet to use it. I'm a canon lens guy after having some abysmal results with 7 sigma lenses and a few tamaron, they wern't bad lenses but had AF issues which I can not excuse.

Tim

[timmciglobal]

You've never run out of buffer space?

Odd, I've had two 20D's (one went back due to a focus issue while it was still in 30 day period) and they both capped at about the same # of frames.

You sure it's shooting 5 FPS? Not about 1.8 FPS later? My 20D will keep shooting just as lower FPS count once it hits the buffer depth (which it hits faster then my xt due to 5 FPS)

Tim

[volenick]

Well another thing I should have pointed out is that even though I'm going to school for photojournalism, I still need an all around "good" camera that will do well in all situations. I'll be taking general photography classes for my first two years and then focusing on the photojournalism for my second two. I also need to see what lenses they have available in the "cage" at the school. If they are pushing the Nikon they might have a decent selection of lenses for me to check out and might not offer any canon or very few.

[timmciglobal]

I sent in a question to a professor at RIT for you regarding what the cage has to offer. I'll let you know if he answers me.

Tim

[TheObiJuan]

Honestly, the best camera for PJ work is the Nikon D2H. I would purchase one if I were to switch. If I saw a good deal, I would do it anyways.

The camera is fast, super fast, actually. The sensor is good, and the flaws can be avoided/fixed.

[TheObiJuan]

You've never run out of buffer space?

Odd, I've had two 20D's (one went back due to a focus issue while it was still in 30 day period) and they both capped at about the same # of frames.

You sure it's shooting 5 FPS? Not about 1.8 FPS later? My 20D will keep shooting just as lower FPS count once it hits the buffer depth (which it hits faster then my xt due to 5 FPS)

Tim

I start capturing at 5fps when someone starts to run, when they are done, I stop shooting. With the 350D I would miss out on the end sequence because of buffer space.
I think I can get atleast 25-30 seconds of 5fps. I hate doing it though, because I have to go back and delete all the OOF shots and duds.
The 20D's delete button is recessed and there is not option to select multiple pictures for deletion like the 350D.

I feel canon will update the 20D with this new delete menu and button, atleast I HOPE so.

[timmciglobal]

No you wouldn't...

I can shoot 3 FPS for over 28 seconds @ 3 FPS.

"Buffer space" speaks purly of the "amount of images held in the memory buffer" and does not speak to the actual performance which takes into account transfer speed. IE: You shoot 5 images in 1 second, by time you've shot the 6th image the first one may of already transfered making it "5 frames" currently in buffer not 6.


Tim

[volenick]

Well, I didn't realize that the rebate canon was offering ended so soon, so I hurried and went to check out the 20d in person. I liked what I saw, so I came home and ordered it off of a site. I think I got it for a pretty good price too. Now I just need to buy a memory card and I'd like to have atleast one more lens for now. Any suggestions?

Edit: I should have mentioned, I'm on a pretty tight budget now that I bought the camera. I should have enough for a good memory card (I know I want atleast 1 gig) and a lens around $200 (give or take) And I got the 18mm-55mm kit with the camera.

[TheObiJuan]

save your money until you can get a lens that will not make you want to sell it in a few months.
What do you want to shoot, this will determine what lens you 'need'.

[volenick]

I'll be shooting a little bit of everything, I would imagine. I'll be doing everything from portraits and still lifes to candid and landscapes for my first couple of years at RIT.

[speaklightly]

I just found a Sigma 70-300mm APO Super II on E-bay for $(US) 200 and it is amazingly sharp and contrasty. Possibly it could be a good starter lens for you.

Sarah Joyce